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  1. #1
    Sav
    Sav is offline Junior Member
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    Default Suboxone detox vs. methadone detox?

    Has anyone done both of these? Does anyone know if suboxone detox is easier that methadone detox? I've had some say yes, some no.

    Does it make sense to switch over to suboxone to detox off totally? I'm getting the impression it's not worth the trouble but haven't gotten a straight answer yet.

    Taanstafl!
    Taanstafl!

  2. #2
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    quote:Does it make sense to switch over to suboxone to detox off totally?
    I don't really know Sav. Suboxone wasn't around when I kicked. A lot of people here feel that it's better to just continue down on the methadone. A lot of people have difficulty switching I hear.

    However, I've always thought there was one big positive to doing the switch. That is that when you get to suboxone you are officialy off of methadone and should you have a weak moment, you can't swallow 100 mgs or ask for a quick increase. I've seen many people unfortunately get down into that tough area below 30 mgs - then they give up, and a week later they're back taking 150 mgs a day - progress that might have taken a year or two to make.

    Either way, Sav, it's doable. Good luck to you
    Dave

    <center>"More will be revealed"</center>

  3. #3
    eyesbrown is offline Senior Member
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    savhi,i have been on meth going on 4yrs,i have gotten myself down from 135 to 50mlg.i have done alot of research,i see now that switching is probly going to be my best bet unless God intervens.if you get on a low dose and do a quick detox i think it can be a very good thing.the thing i am dealing with now,is that switching from meth to sub is alot harder then switching from say hydros to sub b/c of meths half life.i was looking for a doc near me that would switch me over to a lower acting opiate and then to sub, but i have not had alot of luck,so i am going to talk to a sub doc on the 24,once i get down a little lower i will have to wait like 3days befroe i can take the sub,i think it is different for everyone,just remeber sub can be a great thing if you dont stay on it that long,good luck and keep in touch,eyes

  4. #4
    Sav
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    I love the idea you only have to pick up once a month of course.

    And you're right, they can't pump you up like on methadone in a week moment.

    My biggest problem with it is the naltrexone additive, that causes instant withdrawal if you take opiates.

    I resent (and also fear) the idea that my choice is being taken away from me. It's just not honest. I want to not do drugs because I don't want to do them, not because of a medical giulotine over my neck!
    Also, I've asked what happens if you're on this, and you have an emergency that puts you in the hospital.
    The doctor was very, very, cagey about it. The example I used was if I have a motorcycle accident (been riding for 16 years, and this is NYC, so it does happen occasionally!!!
    But I got the impression he was saying "you just suffer" until the naltrexone is out of your system. Which would be loads of fun with a broken something!!!

    Taanstafl!

  5. #5
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    quote:My biggest problem with it is the naltrexone additive, that causes instant withdrawal if you take opiates.

    I resent (and also fear) the idea that my choice is being taken away from me.
    Sorry sav, but that's funny. Now I'm not commenting on whether suboxone is the best way to go, but people detox, and use naltrexone because they have no free choice - they are addicted so they find themselves using even though they don't want to.

    quote:I want to not do drugs because I don't want to do them,
    It took me maybe a year or so and some serious recovery work before I could honestly say I didn't want to use. Early recovery, Sav, is about getting through that time when we still do want to use, but we know we can't.

    good luck Sav
    Dave



    <center>"More will be revealed"</center>

  6. #6
    Cherry is offline Senior Member
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    sav,

    You are misunderstanding the naltrexone additive in Suboxone ....
    It is added to deter the use/abuse of Sub via IV - the naltrexone is supposed to put you into immediate w/d's if you were to IV shoot up the SUB itself .... it has nothing to do with using any other opiates while on Sub.

    Buprenorpbine - the active ingredient in both Subutex and Suboxone - acts as the opiate blocker.
    While on Sub, you will NOT be thrown into immediate w/d's if you were to try and use another opiate - it just blocks it's effects so you should not be able to feel the high thus making using another opiate not pleasurable so it is kinda pointless.

    Hope this helps clear up any confusion for you


    About your other fear of not being able to get pain control if you are in an accident ..... no need for that to affect your decision about trying Sub or not .... There ARE ways to overcome the blocking effects of Sub so opiate pain control IS possible. I will not say the specifics cause I don't want someone to try to do so, but I will assure you that a Doctor CAN override the Sub, but it can be a little tricky and there is a very fine line of overcoming Sub for pain control vs overcoming the blocking effect to try and get high and ending up dead from O/D.



  7. #7
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    quote:There ARE ways to overcome the blocking effects of Sub so opiate pain control IS possible. I will not say the specifics cause I don't want someone to try to do so,
    Thanks..... Using opiates is always possible Cherry. The thing is, that when you want to get free of drugs, you need to keep the focus on staying clean, not on "how can I use drugs if I'm in an accident?"
    Dave

    <center>"More will be revealed"</center>

  8. #8
    Cherry is offline Senior Member
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    Exactly my thoughts and reasonings!!

    But ... I also remember when I first got on Sub having major anxiety from projecting all the "what-if's" of getting into an accident and having to suffer with horrible pain cause I was on Sub, thinking that there was nothing the Dr's could do for me.
    So ... for all of those other "projectors" thinking like I was ( LOL!!! ) .... No need to worry about that .... just get rid of those thoughts ..... find the positive things to project about .... like when you will be 100% clean!!
    :-)~



  9. #9
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    quote:... for all of those other "projectors" thinking like I was ( LOL!!! ) ....
    I think we're all like that when we approach recovery cherry. You ever watch the show "Intervention"? The person always has a bunch of reasons why they can't go into treatment. They're usually along the lines of "If I go away, my life will fall apart". They just can't see that their life has already fallen apart.

    Dave

    <center>"More will be revealed"</center>

  10. #10
    Sav
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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My biggest problem with it is the naltrexone additive, that causes instant withdrawal if you take opiates.

    I resent (and also fear) the idea that my choice is being taken away from me.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Sorry sav, but that's funny. Now I'm not commenting on whether suboxone is the best way to go, but people detox, and use naltrexone because they have no free choice - they are addicted so they find themselves using even though they don't want to.
    -------

    Hehe, I can see why that would be funny, in a way it is. But I'm coming from a perspective of physical addiction, not talking about the mental issues. I've long resented my own addiction and loss of choice it caused. I'd never done or taken anything until my accident
    (okay, lets not talk about those college years...there's a few things I did in college including and besides drugs, and well...there you go!!!)

    I didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, etc... until my accident a few years ago at 35.
    I didn't even KNOW what addiction really was until I had a doctor explain to me the medications I'd been taking were the cause of my pain now, not the injuries. Stopping taking them was what was now causing me pain.
    So when they told me that a long term methadone detox was the answer...well, you can see how this goes.
    So ignorance (my own) put me in this position. And now I have to claw my way out of it, and while I can never have total "control" of my life, I'd at least like as much of the illusion of it I can obtain!
    While I'm going through this, too, I want as little influence and control in the hands of doctors and the medical community as possible. If my doctors had been more responsible, I wouldn't be in this position (hey, I know it's my own fault as well, I wa a total child about the pain I was in).
    Which is why I objected to a blocking substance. You can't *make* somebody not use drugs, they will or they won't.

    Naltrexone is just for the buphenorphine? Hmm... once again, it looks like a doctor gave me wrong information. Thanks...

    Taanstafl!

  11. #11
    josie is offline Senior Member
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    Naltrexone/naloxone confusion:

    Naltrexone is like naloxone except Naltrexone can be taken orally, while naloxone is only effective if injected. Both medications have a similar effect once they have entered the body. Naltrexone was first synthesized in 1965. It was approved by the FDA in 1984 for preventing relapse in opioid addicted patients. Later in 1994 the FDA approved it to treat alcoholism, it tends to reduce cravings for alcohol. Naltrexone binds to the opioid receptors stonger then other opioids (except buprenorphine) this results in near complete blocking of opioids. Naltrexone is not used extensivley because the retention rate of patients is very small. Unlike buprenorphine Naltrexone does not activate the opioid receptors at all, so any lingering withdrawal, or pain from a comprimised endogenous opioid system will still exist.

  12. #12
    arlenewla is offline Senior Member
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    The other thing, of course, that activates compromised endogenous receptors caused by exogenous reasons is....sobriety....abstinence from all opioids; partial or full agonists.

    Arlene F.
    Exodus From MMT;12-25-02
    <center>THIS TOO SHALL PASS</center>

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