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  1. #1
    Terd is offline Senior Member
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    Default Testosterone Levels and Methadone

    As if I didn't need more justification to get off this garbage . . .
    I got my results from my physical yesterday. I listened with particular interest to my testosterone levels, as I have been feeling lethargic, irritable, low sex drive, and should I say it . . . E.D.! I was angry, but not surprised to hear that my serum testosterone levels were 6.5 nmol/L. Normal levels published indicate ~ 10 - 30 is normal. That seems a huge range at first, but I'm willing to bet when establishing these levels, there are still men who report everything is "fine" down below, when they're not. What I am angry about is that the last time I had these levels checked, I was on about 85 mg of methadone, and my results were the same as they are at my present dose of 30 mg. Come to think of it, all the nasty side effects I was experiencing at 85 mg are still present at 30mg. Same side effect profile, same intensity. You'd think after a year and a half of tapering there would be some improvement, but there isn't. If anything, it's worse. How depressing.
    Wil
    The hardest thing to do and the right thing to do are usually the same thing.

  2. #2
    Syd's Avatar
    Syd
    Syd is offline Senior Member
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    Hey all you guys out there, I would like to hear of your problems with low/no sex drive.
    Maybe if my boyfriend sees enough of them, he will start his taper, again. I don't think he associates his problem with MMT. Your post may help change his perception.

    Thanks...Syd

  3. #3
    specster is offline Junior Member
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    Guys,

    I haven't had the blood work done but I know it is indisputable that any opiate lowers your testostorone level. When you are young and your T levels are sky high it doesn't effect your health much. As you get older and/or you start using more the low T levels manifest themselves in a number of ugly ways.
    I think constipation issues, bone aches and low sex drive, depression and arthritis (at least for me) are all related to longterm low T. I have used exogeneus T (steroids) and it relieved all these symptoms, and more. The problem is you cannot stay on T or you will permenantly damage your own body's abaility to make it. So, unless you want to be shooting T for the rest of your life, don't go this route.
    Terd, I don't think T suppression is strongly dose related. It seems that even low, low levels of opiates supresses T significantly. Yet, as soon as you stop opiates - BANG - your libido is back with a vengance within a day or two.
    Anyone who has any insight to T suppression and opiates I would really like to hear about them. It would seem to me that methadone suppresses T more completely than H. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


  4. #4
    Elise is offline Senior Member
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    Wil,
    I'd be willing to bet that my hubby's are lower than yours and I'm not trying to be funny here. It's just not something that he felt comfortable discussing with his counselor or any dr. for that matter. I thought when he got off of the methadone, things would change but not yet. I do wonder how many men suffer from this and don't talk about it? Thanks for bringing this up. I know it can't be easy to talk about.
    Elise


    Elise,
    LAST dose of methadone 10-17-06
    "Detox is Non-Prescription Strength"

  5. #5
    arlenewla is offline Senior Member
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    quote:Originally posted by specster
    Yet, as soon as you stop opiates - BANG - your libido is back with a vengance within a day or two.
    And let's remember, this ain't only a guy thing! It's what I like to call the ultimate gift of sobriery. Who knew all things were possible? [}:)][:p] LOL[8D][:p]

    Arlene F.
    EXODUS FROM MMT;12-25-02
    "There is no easier, softer way - if nothing changes, nothing changes"

  6. #6
    gr8ful is offline Junior Member
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    I just took a cortisol blood test and my doctor confirmed I have low testosterone as well. I'm on 170mg (recently tapered down 10mg). My family is a little concerned, but Im not really experiencing any bad side effects from it... I'm quite young (22) and wonder if I was older if I would notice low T more.

    Anyways, I didn't know methadone can lower testosterone until I talked to the clinic dr., who said he has seen case studies. Aside from this, he mentioned having a low testosterone isn't necessarily "bad". In fact, high levels of testosterone can cause prostate cancer...looking on the bright side, you have far less chance of getting prostate cancer with a low T. I'm sure when I meet with the specialist (endocrinologist..."dr of the hormones") he will offer me steroid treatment, most likely injections of testosterone. If relying on ampules of testosterone will eventually stop my natural production of T later, perhaps I will refrain and continue my taper, and hope my levels return to normal.

    If anyone has more info please let me know...as someone else mentioned, it's just one more reason to get off the juice :)

  7. #7
    joefromdc is offline Senior Member
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    quote:So, unless you want to be shooting T for the rest of your life, don't go this route.
    They have transdermal patches now,(I used to steal them to sell to weightlifters to support my habit) I too have no doubt that opiates lower your T leval and create hormonal imbalances ..look at all the women who quit menstruating (sic) while on dope.I blame hormonal imbalances on my inabilty to sleep. I urge all men over 40 to get a PSA test included (prostate specific antigen) with your next bloodwork

  8. #8
    specster is offline Junior Member
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    Gr8ful,

    Although you may not notice the effects of lower Testostorone (T), believe me, they are there. I first went on MMT when I was in my early 30s and it didn't cause weight gain or ED. I went on and off a few more tmes. When I was 43 I went on about 70 mg and gained a gut in about 4 months - while exercising 3-4x week. Sex drive sucked too.

    I F____ed up my shoulder and when the MD did Xrays he said I have severe arthritis. I don't think it is just from MMT but I do think it is from 30 plus years of opiates suppressing my T and other hormone levels. Several MDs have seen my Xrays and are preplexed as to why my arthritis is as bad as it iat such a young age.

    All those things the clinics say methadone doesn't do - cause weight gain, bone damage and teeth rot. Well look at the people who are on it for a long time and tell me if you can connect the dots. Does MMT rot your teeth - No, but if you don't silvate (another hormone at work) bacteria will attack your teeth.

    So definately try to limit the amount and duration of M becuase I think it is pretty clear that this stuff is not the panacia these clinics claim it is.

  9. #9
    joefromdc is offline Senior Member
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    Also...I'll try not to be to graphic but most healthy men wake up in the morning with an erection,commonly called "early morning erection blues" by some people.I always thought it was urine,when I became a nurse I found out it's the time of day when men have the highest leval of testosterone in them.When I am on opiates I never get an erection waking in the morning..or any other time of day for that matter..

  10. #10
    gr8ful is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for your feedback specster. I am already on my decent to abstinence, but in the meantime, I guess I am fortunate enought not to be experiencing many negative signs. You know it's funny, I have put on about 40lbs since I started MMT and I have a belly...at first I had no idea why I was suddenly gaining weight, since I have always been very skinny, I guess it's the MMT and not my metabolism slowing down as I age.

    Now the only thing I need to figure out is if I should receive testosterone therapy while I am on MMT or just quit MMT and hope my T levels go back up after I quit. Does anyone have some suggestions for me? Is testosterone therapy not good for you? I suspect I will remain on MMT for the next year while I am detoxing, so I am debating not doing therapy incase it does additional damage...once I am off MMT, I presume my testosterone will increase naturally, which is the ultimate goal.

    I've done lots of research on Methadone, especially comparing other opiate agonists, and have also consulted with a pain management specialist at City of Hope cancer foundation. Upon all my research, and talks with the pain mgmt specialist, I have conluded, as well as the M.D., that Methadone is the safest narcotic to take both long and short term. I know clinics and doctors may have an agenda, and I am sure Methadone does have its bad long-term effects, but considering all else, based on what I've read and heard so far it seems relatively "safe".

  11. #11
    specster is offline Junior Member
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    Gr8tful,

    Although I have not specifically reasearc what pain killer is "Safest" (There are many ways to define safe - Dose tolarance, side effects, efficacy etc.). I would think morphine would be the winner in many of those categories. I think it is pure agonist but I think that is a good thing. MDs don't know 100% what the effects of antagonists are long term. Morphine exists in nature as well.

    As far as Testostorone Replacement Therapy (TRT) you are in luck because I do know something about this. You are quite young to even consider doing this. If you think you hang wait out the year before you are off the MMT wait. Once you take T, your own testicles are going to shrink. The fact that you are on MMT may make them shrink even more. There are drugs you can take to bring them back in size (HCG) and production (clomid and nolvedex). Yet, if you have been on TRT for a long time it is difficult to bring them back 100%. MMT only makes this more difficult.

    If you are depressed, have low libedo, low energy, poor muscle tone, poor erections and constipation T will make you feel better fast. Yet, you are going to pay a high price in terms of harming your testicles.

    If you do decide to go on TRT choose your MD wisely. There are many MD who don't know squat about it.

    Your dose is so high that you are not going to be able to do much to bring it back w/o exogeneous T. If you could get down to under 50 mgs/day maybe you could change your diet, exercise and possibly take some other medicines which would help you bring your T level up w/o taking T.

    Definately wait if you can. You don't want to be taking T for the rest of your life. There are other problems associated with taking TRT. You need to balence a bunch of other hormone levels and it is very difficult to do.

    Hope this helped. Best wishes

  12. #12
    gr8ful is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks so much for the reply specster! I think I am definitely going to wait another year and really work on getting off methadone before starting TRT. It's scary to think about what T can do to my testicles, which I didn't realize before. I did know your testies are what makes T, but didn't know it affects their size. One thing I have been doing lately is exercise...everyday I exercise and stretch for a good 30 minutes and have noticed a tremendous improvement in my energy levels and have increased motivation and feel great! Libido has never been down too much, but have noticed a slight decrease.

    Again, thanks for your info, I hope I can get off methadone in the next year or so, and then naturally see my T levels rise. I'm working on reducing my dose down to < 60mg because my doctor says I can switch to suboxone then, which I am still debating if I should. The only reason I would want to switch to suboxone is so I can get my health insurance to pay, since it can be prescribed through my regular doctor.



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