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  1. #1
    judysorionstar is offline Junior Member
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    Default Getting off meth! what to expect/how long?


    Hi! My name is Judy and I'm very new here,so bear with me,ok?
    My situation/questions today are about my niece...'j'... I'm very sure that hers is not a new problem!!!
    She has been on a methadone maintenance program for about a year,to get over addiction to pain pills...percocets and oxycodone. She was taking 160mg of meth a day. She had been asking repeatedly for them to wean her down but they never would.($$$$$$?) She was very consistant with her visits to the clinic and did not miss days. Until recently due to unforseen,unfortunate problems,she missed three days in a row (3 days in hell)...so when she went back they cut her dose to 60mg (punishment?) That's when she decided to take matters into her own hands....see if you don't pay,they cut you down one or two mg a day so you will be done in 30 days. 4 days ago she was at 4mg and this is the last day that she went to the clinic.
    'j' says that she was really sick for the first two days,and better yesterday and pretty good today. She said she's tired and weak but these are her only symptoms of withdrawal. (She actually cleaned her house today!)
    We both are hearing inconsistant information...some say that her problems are just beginning and she will still be very sick,others say that because she weaned down so much that she should be okay now and maybe done...that she won't feel very good for a while but that should be the worst of it.
    So now we are turning our situation/questions over to you good people....what can she expect? Is she done? How long does this take? (she said she did take a couple of percocets a couple of hours ago,and that helped a lot but she's scared of going backwards. Could it help to take a lesser narcotic to help with minor symptoms or will she be right back where she started? What they never tell us is that the withdrawal from methidone is MUCH MUCH worse than from percs and even oxys!!!:(
    Anyone out there have any advice? Voices of experience? Words of wisdom? Any and all responses are appreciated!!!


    Thanks everyone...I'm looking forward to getting into this site,for my own situation mainly but that's for another day!!!

  2. #2
    freakedout's Avatar
    freakedout is offline Moderator
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    Everyone is different. However at 160mg a day for a year, the *real* withdrawals probably have not started. It sometimes takes 1-2 weeks+ before full Methadone withdrawals start and they can last for months/years.

    Very, very few people have successfully withdrawn CT from Methadone. Most go back to using. This is also the most dangerous time for potential overdose.

    You might want to help your niece find a doctor who will prescribe Suboxone to help the "detox" process. You can find lots of threads on this and the Suboxone board about using Suboxone to leave Methadone behind.


    -freak

  3. #3
    whodey is offline Junior Member
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    Im gonna go ahead and jump on this post rather than start a new one since your nieces situation is similar to mine. Ive been on 140 mg for 2 yrs and have been very fortunate (or lucky) to have attained good standing at the clinic I attend. I get a months supply at a time, so the plan has been to take 100/day (I know that will suffice) and start to stockpile so I can stop going to clinic when I get to a low dose.(seems dumb to pay the same amt for a drop as for 140) Im having difficulty getting the motivation to start the process....140 seems sky-high and hearing you guys talk about the troubles under 20mgs, i feel im in for a long haul. ive been pretty responsible with it over the past years, running out only a couple times; but one days withdrawl was enough to give me a good taste of what it feels like. Im a wuss when it comes to pain...cant handle the thought of being without. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

    Judy, I cant imagine what your niece is enduring....you women obviously can handle pain--just thinking of her makes me hurt. Shes definitly not out of the woods, but I would say if shes 5 days past without dying the worst is behind her. Take good care of her, I wish I could be more help, but if shes done with it, good riddance!

    Anyway, I just requested my dose lowered to 130. I know 100 is enough, I always end taking the extra when I feel like a little "kicker" or Im not feeling 100%. Whats the deal with that new stuff I keep hearing about (buta?). Do I need to be down to 30 before I can hop on it, and what are the advantages?

    Just fishing for some data and advice.....thanks


  4. #4
    selfwilly is offline Senior Member
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    i still for the life of me cannot understand, why a large methadone doses would be "treatment" for a pain pill habit, i guess i've been out of the loop too long, but i'm still shocked to see people with hydro habits, codiene habits and the like wind up on methadone maint! has the world gone mad or is it just me? back when i was doing the fascist lock step for my dose, it was almost exclusively heroin addicts.

    judy sorry i ranted, guess i'm kinda upset that the "medical community", if thats really the word to use describing clinics, would allow someone with a pain pill habit to get to 160 mgs maint, it just boggles the mind.

    methadone withdrawels tend to be quite a bit longer than detoxing from short acting dope like heroin and such. they are also usually more unpleasant at least i thought so. methadone is a long acting opioid , has a very long halflife. i read somewhere that traces can actually be found in body fat up to to a year after discontinuing it. everyones different and once in a great while you hear of cases where the detox symptoms were milder, hopefully shes in that category. if shes starting to take percs again shes libel not to stop, i really don't recommend that course of action if her intent is to get clean.

    freaked outs suggestion of suboxone may well be the most reasonable way to detox if another opiate is to be used. many seem to have success with it. look in on the sub, bup section of forum for lot's of info on that method. i've never used it, so i really don't have any first hand experience with it.

    welcome and keep posting-charlie

  5. #5
    larksport is offline Member
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    it's all about the $$$

  6. #6
    ms_iboga is offline Junior Member
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    Hi,

    I feel for your niece. It never ceases to amaze me how callous and inconsiderate some clinics can be.

    I came off methadone 5 months ago with Ibogaine. Methadone is a very hard drug to detox from, as it lasts so long in your body. My urinalysis tested positive for methadone 4 weeks after my last drink. If you like, you can read my story here: http://www.ibogatherapy.org/IbonautCafe/186.aspx

    Things that might help your niece:

    - Ibuprofen, and lots of it
    - Clonidine
    - Hot baths
    - Meal replacements- strawberry is alright
    - Back rubs
    - Love

    Some doctors will write a script for a kick kit, others will not. I wish you the best of luck with everything.

    love Julie

  7. #7
    OxyMoron is offline Member
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    um selfwilly, sorry to tell you but it is very common for someone who was on pain pills, and not heroin, to not only start MMT, but be on a higher dose than a heroin user. I havent heard a legitimate reason why, but i do know that it is true. for some reason people on pain meds have a higher tolerance to the meth. maybe the reason you were mostly around heroin users at your clinic back in the day was because abuse of pain medication has grown rapidly in the last 5-10 years. anyways an opiate is an opiate and if someone is physiclly dependent on them and is going through hell every day just to get the money for their doc, and in essence ruining their lives and relationships, then to me they have all the right in the world to give up and start MMT. everyone is differant men. not only that but just because someone says they are addicted to hydrocodone, doesnt mean you know the full extent of their habit. what if they eat 50 10mg lortbas every day? that sounds like a pretty heavy habit to me man. anyways theres my 2 cents. you guys have a good day and good luck to your niece Judy.

  8. #8
    selfwilly is offline Senior Member
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    and i'm sorry to hear that,too, because when the time comes, and some of these people make the decision to get clean, they will find out just what it was that we were warning about. trying to get clean is a very emotional experience. i've NEVER meant any of my comments as an attack of a personal nature. like btrack (i think it was?) said i find addiction fascinating and horrible-such a weird blend of pysco social and physical issues..

    by the grace of "a higher power"i do have the gift of hind sight, and my comments regarding mmt are not meant to be taken as denigration of what any given addict chooses for himself, all i try to do is put forth what i have been through. i think mmt should only be used as a last resort. having been through this and finally gotten through to the other side, i can tell you that my opinion on this will not change-i believe that EVERYONE, somewhere within them, posseses the desire and ability to get clean and sober.

    from what i've read you are a newcomer to mmt, but i'm willing to bet(unless you are a legitimate long term pain patient) that you will someday share this point of view.
    i believe it is within the spirit of this board to encourage those with the real desire to get clean, to "go for it" rather than some substitute that one will have to wrestle with farther down to line. i am not trying "to be mean" to mmtrs.


    i'm well aware of the social driving forces that turn addicts to mmt. i was one, and for the same reasons you all state. i had also a rather large hydro and oxy pill habits. my comments as to the mmt programs of yore had more to do with admittance criteria. i've heard more than once, recently, of codiene addicts considering mmt-now that IS rediculus. we can only complain to our government that more and better choices are made available to help the struggling addict.

    and yes, in response to other comments, this forum does tend toward "abstinance". without abstinance, recovery is not possible. i don't mean recovery, as in a recovery of things or money or job,although the term does encompass them, i mean spiritually. have a good day, charlie


  9. #9
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    quote:..but it is very common for someone who was on pain pills, and not heroin, to not only start MMT, but be on a higher dose than a heroin user. I havent heard a legitimate reason why, but i do know that it is true.
    Well as someone who has been through it I can give you an educated guess as to the reason. It is because they are often young and naive. They have less experience with withdrawal and are thus less afraid of a high dose. Just about any addict could get up to 160mgs, or even 260mgs these days - all you gotta do is ask. You want to know my explanation of when a MM patient reaches a "stable" dose? It's when the desire for a slight buzz for a week or so from an increase, is outweighed by the fear of "what happens if I ever have to get off this stuff"?

    I'd really suggest you, Oxymoron, and others too, read up on the disease of addiction. There are many websites and great books on the subject. Some sites are put out there by the Methadone industry. These are the people who tell you that we opiate addicts are different from other people and that there is a difference between being addicted and being "dependent".

    I've been to rehab, been on MM for 6 years, and been in recovery now for a long time. Looking back now over the whole thing I can see that I agree with the overwhelming majority of the experts in that addiction is a complex behavioral disease, partly hereditary, and partly learned that usually begins in childhood, long before we use our first drug.

    This disease process seems to run it's course regardless of what drug we use. We have trouble facing life, we turn to drugs, we begin to face the consequences of active addiction, we try to modify our using or bargain with the disease, and eventually, if we survive, we find acceptance and recovery.

    MM is really just another bargain with the disease, and since it feeds into our addictive attitudes, it is pretty much doomed, in my opinion, as something that will lead to real quality of life.

    MM, is OK, I think as "harm reduction", when the alternatives are ODs, AIDS, etc. This,Oxymoron, is what selfwilly was aluding to that you didn't understand. Not that hydrocodone addicts weren't really addicted, but that they are young, and the risk of harm to them is so much less.

    Anyway, this boards focus is not getting on MM, it's what happens when we want to get off.

    Judy, your neice has been on a high dose for a while so she's likely to suffer pretty severe acute symptoms detoxing in 30 days. If she can't take it she might try a slower detox, switch to bupe, or go to an inpatient detox - then a rehab - that's what finally worked for me.

    I know that when we're still addicted, the drug, and our physical symptoms seem to be the main thing. I can tell you though, that looking back, I can see that there were changes I went through leading up to my detox, and things I went through afterward, that were so much more important than how many miligrams I took or how long my symptoms lasted. Now don't get me wrong, I think you should get good medical help so you don't suffer severe symptoms in a detox. It's just that I get a little impatient with some of the advice I hear regarding detoxing from opiates. In particular I take exeption with the notion that you should be in charge of your detox and "let your feelings tell you" when you should decrease. Sheesh, listening to my feelings, and self medicating is what got me addicted in the first place. I needed to let go of the idea that in order for me to escape active addiction I had to avoid pain at all costs. Indeed, earlier in my addiction I had had several relatively "painless" detoxes, only to relapse every time.

    I hope you and your neice Judy will continue posting here. There are some really good people here. Truly giving up drugs, not substituting another drug, involves changing on a deep

  10. #10
    OxyMoron is offline Member
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    Just wondering......since when did all of the Hydrocodone addicts become "young?" Didnt know that was the case.

  11. #11
    RowJimmyRo is offline Junior Member
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    quote:Originally posted by judysorionstar


    Hi! My name is Judy and I'm very new here,so bear with me,ok?
    My situation/questions today are about my niece...'j'... I'm very sure that hers is not a new problem!!!
    She has been on a methadone maintenance program for about a year,to get over addiction to pain pills...percocets and oxycodone. She was taking 160mg of meth a day. She had been asking repeatedly for them to wean her down but they never would.($$$$$$?) She was very consistant with her visits to the clinic and did not miss days. Until recently due to unforseen,unfortunate problems,she missed three days in a row (3 days in hell)...so when she went back they cut her dose to 60mg (punishment?) That's when she decided to take matters into her own hands....see if you don't pay,they cut you down one or two mg a day so you will be done in 30 days. 4 days ago she was at 4mg and this is the last day that she went to the clinic.
    'j' says that she was really sick for the first two days,and better yesterday and pretty good today. She said she's tired and weak but these are her only symptoms of withdrawal. (She actually cleaned her house today!)
    We both are hearing inconsistant information...some say that her problems are just beginning and she will still be very sick,others say that because she weaned down so much that she should be okay now and maybe done...that she won't feel very good for a while but that should be the worst of it.
    So now we are turning our situation/questions over to you good people....what can she expect? Is she done? How long does this take? (she said she did take a couple of percocets a couple of hours ago,and that helped a lot but she's scared of going backwards. Could it help to take a lesser narcotic to help with minor symptoms or will she be right back where she started? What they never tell us is that the withdrawal from methidone is MUCH MUCH worse than from percs and even oxys!!!:(
    Anyone out there have any advice? Voices of experience? Words of wisdom? Any and all responses are appreciated!!!


    Thanks everyone...I'm looking forward to getting into this site,for my own situation mainly but that's for another day!!!

  12. #12
    LEXI is offline Member
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    HAS THE SNEEZING STARTED?

    LEXI

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