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Hello I have been in MMT for 7 1/2 years & religiously followed all rules the entire time with the mind sight that I would NEVER again abuse opiates. I knew the moment I walked into the door I was done, I was not one of those people that could go to rehab clean out then go home just to observe the damage & havoc that I caused on my life.
it was MMT & MMT allowed me to repair the damaged that had been done to my life. Since then I have remained clean of the very & only drug I was addicted to OXYCONTIN! I have been free o that drug now for 7 1/2 years.
Now keep in mind that when I went into MMT that I researched & learned all that I could about the pros & cons of methadone use. I knew it was trading 1 drug for another but there was hope that I could at least repair my life, my surrounding & atmosphere so that I would have a reason to want to stay clean & not relapse!
Last year I started thinking about detoxing & to leave the MMT for good. I finally made the decision to detox & leave! This my dear friends is set in stone & I AM SO DONE WITH IT! So done with putting any kind of addicting medications in my body! I'M DONE! I am currently tapering off & my last day will be this Mon July 2nd. I have the most amazing support team in place. I have thought this out thoroughly. I am ecstatic on one hand & scared to death on the other.
I have come here in search of friends, friends that I know I will need during this detox. First & foremost I am relying on the good LORD above indefinitely but know I need friends that are in the same situation or have survived it. My husband is my rock but he is the most anti-crime person I have ever met. He is an officer & doesn't have a clue what I am going through but he is trying his little heart out to help me but he is sometimes lost for words because he has no idea what I am going through. Not to mention he has his own problems. He is suffering from PTSD from being a 2 time Marine war vet. I still sometimes wonder why he would have ever wanted me? But he is truly Godsent! I hope I can get to know some of you. I know that I have read many post that have given me GREAT inspiration & I thank you all for that!
Last edited by Inhishands(Heather); 08-16-2012 at 11:05 PM.
Hey Healther, sounds like you have a great attitude going into this and that will take you a long way. How long have you been tapering for? I've been on mdone myself, however, I switched over to sub just as I was starting to feel the the mdone wd. I know what you mean about how you felt when you walked through the clinic door.... Little did I know it would take me like 4 years to get out of that nasty place. Kudos for making the decision to put down the opiate! Have you thought about getting any support through aa, na, smart or counseling? I go to support groups and they have helped me big time! Keep posting I'm following your progress!
Hello rugby thank you so much for responding, I am currently @ 25mg coming from my highest dose 65mg. I went 5 a day then stopped @ 30mg & became stable after a couple of days staying on 30mg. Now I have decided to take the 5 a day plunge again & leave this Monday @ 5mg. I do have an appt for a subutex/suboxone treatment the next day on Tues. At first I was sure about the subutex then on to suboxone but now something is telling me not to. I have no idea what to do & its driving me crazy! I worry so much about the lethargy & fatigue because I have 3 daughters that I am very much involved with, with there sports & etc..MMT allowed me to have a productive life, it really did but I have been researching the long term effects & not to mention going twice a week every week. I live in the state of Kentucky & our laws are really strict on MMT. I just dont want to be a slave anymore. I just dont know what to do!
Oh & about the support, I have been teaching this thing we do @ our church, Pioneer for kids & I have a counselor (my Wendy) she is so awesome, she is type B personality which is what I needed. I have not tried NA in person,I live in a small town & I have to live kinda confidential about my addiction due to my husbands work, & I would have to drive 3 towns over w/o anyone noticing & running there mouth. I live in an area where we had a massive OC epidemic & the people around here didnt take to well to it. In other words they dont understand why you just cant stop using 1 morning & continue with your life like nothing ever happened. There like "what disease; just another fix if you ask me" UGHHH! but through all of this my family has became to get a better understanding of it, I guess they would rather have me alive on methadone than dead! Sorry I am writing a book but I am finding myself more lonelier than I thought I would coming off Methadone. I cant talk to the users & well the non users dont know diddly squat about what I going through so I just need to talk to people that is trying to help themselves one way or another like me. Again thanks for replying :)
This is just my opinion - you may be setting yourself up in the wrong way with how fast you are tapering. Have you considered and/or will your klinik cooperate with a much more gradual taper? A good rule of thumb is a 10% reduction every two weeks (or as close as your klinik can measure it.) When you hit 2mg, take it every other day for a week and then stop.
Methadone has a half life of around 10-40 hours. Usually on the high side for people on daily MMT. I have heard 36 hours mentioned. Half life if the the amount of time it takes to eliminate 50% of the drug from your system. This means that although you have been taking 25 mgs a day, you actually have signicantly more than that active in your blood stream due to the "stacking" half lifes.
I was on MMT for 7.5 years. I did the a slow taper from 120mg to 10mg. This was close to a year long taper. Once I hit 10mg I stopped. I felt absolutely ZERO withdrawals of any kind until late in the 6th day. That is how it had stacked up in my system. I ended up going onto Suboxone which is just as big of a trap as MMT except the side effects are much worse for some of us. I would not recommend it for a person who was on long term MMT. It took me another 18 months of the really drawn out taper to get off the Suboxone. It is much too easy of a trap to fall into.
Maybe consider a gradual, deliberate 3 month detox dropping every two weeks something like this:
2mg every other day for two weeks and then stop.
That would give you a much softer landing than what you are planning. The biggest enemies I have seen to a successful detox are fear, the desire for instant gratification, and a lack of a realistic plan.
As has already been mentioned a support group is a real good idea. You are going to need face-to-face support from people who have been through it. From the description you give of the area you live in, the groups will probably have folks with opiate detox experience and even more important, the staying clean part.
Again, the above is just my opinion and I am sure others will chime in also.
Hey there, I'm about to be coming off methadone in 3 weeks so I completely feel where you are coming from. I wish you the absolute best and I hope you update with how your feeling, I plan to do the same. How are you feeling today?
I would have to agree with freak on this your taper in my opioion is a little too aggressive. So your going to transition to sub? If you do don't stay on it long. Basically the same thing as mdone and a real b@#$% to get off of too. Have you considered just doing a slower taper off the mdone and then jumping? I wish that's what I would have done. Keep posting. Have a great day!
Central Costa Rica, Home base is East coast of USA
Re: methadone detox
Just wanted to welcome you to the board.
I also have to say I agree that a slower wean from the methadone is a better way to go. I think 10% cut every two weeks or slighly longer is a much better approach.
I also want to say that yes this board is wonderful but it can not replace 3d support. Not saying that NA or AA is the only way to go but you do need support in person. Maybe a therapist, minister but someone in person who has been successful staying clean is just about nessasary.
CONGRATS on desire to reclaim your life. This is a process and after 7 yrs on Methadone can be a rather slow process. Being one that went from Methadone to suboxone I dont think its a good idea at all. If I had a do over I would of just stuck with the methadone and did a slow wean till I got to zero. Suboxone is a differenat animal and not a easy detox at all. With Methadone long half life is is not a easy swtich over and due to the lenght of time it takes to get thru the detox of methadone, you will be addicted to yet another opiate. But this opiate is a partial agonist and who knows what damage your brain goes thru trying to fit it in and make use of it. Being one that has been there,, done that. I hope you dont put yourself thru that.
Hey guys, thanks so much for the replies, it means a lot to me right now. I am currently @ 15 mg & just feeling a lil heavy, I think the good Lord above is holding strong to me. I completely understand the slow taper & have been reading tons & tons of post on it. However I believe that I would have talked myself out of it. I am a kinda (hell or high water person)..lol if ya know what I mean. I am deciding against the subutex/suboxone treatment. If I am gonna do this; I am gonna do it right, no addictive substances & lots of prayers. Tomorrow is officially my last day @ the clinic, driving everyday for the past 2 weeks has been for the birds, haven't done that since I started 7 1/2 years ago. For those of you that pray remember me in your prayers this week is this is the jumping off point. I CAN DO THIS, I WILL DO THIS! I will try to keep you all updated as much as possible this week. Thanks for being here for me.
For the love of all things holy...my MD has helped me so much, I am a lil groggy typing this so bear with me, My Doc gave me Neurontin,(nerve pain & its works in other areas of pain as well, non narcotic) Klonopin (which has never been my drug of choice, hated it but has kept the nerves & shakes to a 0/10) chlonodine (you all know what this is, blood pressure, tizanadine (mucsle relaxer which knocks me out) & also Ambian (which is another I hate on any normal day or any given day but it makes me sleep all night, thank ya
Jesus) but all of this is Godsent to me. In other words I have been able to rest in my own bed with no withdrawals other than lethargy & fatigue & a little depression, which I think the depression is from the Ambian) But hey there trying to keep me asleep through the worst..Its day 5 & I will NEVER go back to the Methadone clinic. If those of you that have been in the methadone clinic & have had straight good screens get your file take it to YOUR MD the one that knows you best & tell him the truth, show him your clean screens he should help you. I hope this helps some of you that has religiously tried to follow all rules in the Methadone clinic. Now this will only get you through the worst part of withdraw not PAWS. But I have been researching about the drug Neurontin & it helps for nerve pain & just pain in general..The more my life goes on & the more help I get & the more I research & learn I will share with you. Oh support try to get it or find it if you have none, my husband is an officer & truly loves me especially after this 5 day crap & he has been dosing me correctly & taking such good care of my & I thank the Lord for all,that he has done. My new Motto ( If Jesus could have went through what he went through on that cross for his children, I can do this for mine) By his stripes we are healed..AMEN I have some thing I wanna post from a Dr. that has also helped me, it will cost you about $200.00 from Wal-Mart & GNC but it is helping my body so much. Be Back to post it!
How to go cold turkey from up to 150mg's of methadone! The easy way.
Methadone/Opiate & drug withdrawal system. This really does work.
I believe in the search for truth…the following monograph is what I know to be true about the use and withdrawal from methadone. I also understand that in life, the truth is constantly evolving. My 18 years on the road to recovery probably taints my judgment somewhat…but friends—I know recovery from the bottom rung. I’ve written countless e-mail replies to those of you who wish to discontinue methadone. In order to save myself time I’ve decided to write as much as I can on one, or two, pages…the truth as I see it…to assist you in your endeavor. I will be adding and subtracting as more information is made available. Certainly, you may perceive your truth to be different. If you think that going to the methadone clinic every morning to get your dose for the rest of your life…gives you quality of life…then read no further and God bless you. I assure you, the standard medical establishment does not have an answer for withdrawal. In fact, the new way of thinking is that many of you will have to be on methadone for the rest of your lives. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They will try and convince you that sudden withdrawal will cause your untimely demise. Another falsehood, although the truth is you may feel like you’re dying. I consistently work with people stopping cold turkey and have better luck than lowering the dose over time., I’ve NEVER had an in-house methadone withdrawal case leave the program early…all have gone cold turkey from 60-150 mg per day…Many do this without the aid of other mind-altering prescriptive drugs…even though I’m licensed to prescribe these drugs. There are exceptions, for those that I detox out-patient, and for those that are on other medications when they come in for treatment…I’ll cover those medications in the following paragraphs. Personally, I urge all to consider in-house Detox for methadone…especially if going cold turkey. Although in my personal experience I’ve never seen any advantage in lowering the dose over time. Especially, if one is at 45 mg or less per day. Methadone Detox can normally be accomplished in 3-5 weeks.
The most important issue in treatment for withdrawal is not so much treating the disease state but treating the individual. One specific protocol designed to treat a disease is standard medicine’s answer to all disease states. This is mechanistic medicine. It does not take into account our genetic variability…we respond to treatment in different ways…not just through biochemistry, but also on the emotional and spiritual levels. For the last 4 years I’ve been using nutrition—Intravenous and oral—to rebuild and repair the biochemistry pathways in the body and mind. Over four years experience —this includes heroin, and all other street drugs, alcohol, and prescription medications--has taught me that natural detox works 100 times better than detox formulated and predicated by the use of other mind altering chemicals. It is also important to recognize that there are many of you that were prescribed methadone for chronic pain. Yet one must recognize that the end result is the same—and therefore the remedies for withdrawal are the same.
One more important point is that emotional and spiritual supports are necessary in this journey back to health. It would be rare that a person is not stretched to the absolute limit—body, mind, and spirit--in the process of withdrawing from methadone. Those who chose to do this alone, rarely succeed. The support of family, friends, or even the 12-step programs are important adjuncts to this journey.
One final point needs to made about the use of methadone. There are those that were put on methadone for pain management. This occurs because opiates in general—while good acute therapy—are not good choices for chronic long-term pain. The body adjusts to opiate therapy by down regulating opiate receptors and the patient will eventually build a tolerance to the standard opiates like vicodin, percocet, or oxycontin just to name a few. Methadone is the last ditch effort to control pain…unfortunately, the use of methadone usually creates more long-term health problems. The other unfortunate aspect of taking someone off methadone—those that have been using it to treat chronic pain—is what will be used to control pain in the future. There has been some movement in treating pain with anti-depressants with poor results. Furthermore, long term opiate use eventually create what is termed the opiate pain syndrome…which simply is the fact that the receptors are so down regulated that the opiate have nothing to act on…and that’s why opiate therapy doesn’t work over the long term…For many of those with chronic pain, choices have to be made…and the withdrawal from methadone will be especially trying…but it can be done following the protocols listed below…as your body heals and the receptors are synthesized in the body your own enkephlins and endorphins (natural body opiates) will start to be interactive in pain management…this may not be enough…yet many cases of chronic pain will subside if serotonin levels in the brain can be increased—the reason for doing amino acid therapy is to increase these levels. Anti-depressants don’t increase the production of anything over the long term…in fact it is well known that in the long term they decrease levels of neurotransmitters such as serotonin. Amino acids therapies work well on most cases of fibromyalgia even though many of these patients will fall victim to the use of methadone which just creates more problems. The good news is that if a fibromyalgia patient will start the following protocols to get off methadone…these are the same basic protocols for treating Fibromyalgia…
1) Most Methadone clinics are for profit, private enterprises, do you really think they want you off the methadone. The cost of a dose of methadone is about $1.00…what are they charging you?
2) Since all associated therapists and counselors that work the methadone clinics are trained and get their information from the standard medical establishment…do you really think they know the truth…no one is saying that they are not caring individuals--but they don’t know the truth anymore than the people who prescribe the medication to you. If fact most of them think we’re idiots because we doubt and ask questions. The fact is that we do not know the long range effects of methadone on the human body and mind…many are now thinking that the longer you are on the methadone the more profound, and possibly irreversible these changes may be…In fact we don’t know the exact mechanism of action of many psychotropic drugs—just review the Physicians Desk Reference on Prozac…along with the countless other caustic chemicals we insist on putting in the human body.
3) Methadone is one of the most physically dependent medications invented in the 20th century. The reason for this is a) its long half-life (24-36 hours)…b) it is a synthetic morphine, c) the diabolic symptomology associated with withdrawal and the length of the withdrawal symptoms. Methadone, like all opioids creates profound changes to gastrointestinal function… In layman’s terms this means that regardless of the food you eat--absorption of the vital nutrients is impaired. If nutrients cannot be absorbed in sufficient quantities and associated quality…all biochemical pathways in the body are affected negatively. Chronic fatigue, sleeplessness, aches and pains, depression, anxiety, are all signs and symptoms of these deficiencies. Methadone also has profound effects on brain neurotransmitter production and function. It is also known that it creates havoc in what is called the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis…which accounts for the chronic fatigue. And like all opiates, methadone down-regulates opiate receptors in the human body thus the long lasting aches and pains associated with withdrawal. Methadone withdrawal is particularly insidious because, left untreated; these symptoms can last literally for months. Also the longer you are on methadone the more profound these changes in body and mind function.
4) Regardless of the level you decrease the dose before quitting…you will suffer some level of withdrawal…Frankly, I’ve never been able to discern much difference in the withdrawal intensity between 1 mg or 80 mg…it’s always difficult. The withdrawal is unique to each individual…I’ve had some come off 65 mg or more, and while uncomfortable, hardly seem to break a sweat. Others coming off low doses and be in pure agony. One must treat the individual, not the disease.
Nutritional treatment is essential in the recovery and withdrawal phase of any type of drug or alcohol dependency. To clarify nutritional treatment, consider the following statement: The body on methadone, or any other mind altering drug or alcohol, is like the house that has been damaged in a storm. If you were repairing the house what building materials would you need? You would need lumber, sheet rock, shingles, and etc for the major supplies…these are the equivalent of the bodies need for protein, carbohydrates, and fats. How would you hold everything together?…nuts and bolts, nails, and screws—these are the equivalent of the bodies need for vitamins and minerals. To make the repairs we need the proper tools to cut the lumber and fit it into place…one would need the saws, the equivalent of the bodies production of enzymes…these are made from the proteins we eat…one can draw analogy after analogy to explain the necessity for nutritional treatment to facilitate one back to health…only one thing needs to be clearly understood…you put back into the body the things it needs to come back to health.
Any nutritional therapy should be adhered to for at least 90 to 180 days regardless of how you feel. Just like it takes time to alter profoundly the body’s biochemistry with drugs…it takes time to repair with proper nutrition. Oral nutrition is best but often is difficult for those in their first week of detox and recovery. Proteins, complex carbs, and essential fatty acids are necessary building blocks for repair and return of proper function of organ systems and brain neurochemistry. Vitamins and minerals are “co-factors and co-enzymes” which work on the building blocks to do repair and rebuilding. Additionally, it is always counter-productive to move from the complex to the simple…my philosophy is to start simple and move to the level of complexity that works for you…remember all patients are unique in the way they process nutrients and in their ability to maximize therapy.
The following I suggest for those who wish to detox out-patient:
1) Pharmaceuticals: Clonidine 0.1, or 0.2 mg, twice to three times per day. Clonidine is an anti-hypertensive medication that is commonly utilized in opiate withdrawal syndromes. You must come off this medicine slowly—rebound hypertension may occur…especially if you already have high blood pressure…this medication is non-addicting; Vistaril 50-100mg…three times daily…this is a sedating antihistamine which helps with anxiety and sleep…down side is that after 10 days or so it loses its therapeutic efficacy; phenergan 25 mg tab…one every 6 hours for nausea and cramps. I may use these medications on my out/in-patient clients depending on the severity of symptoms. Imodium A/D works well for diarrhea.
2) Intra-Venous Nutritional therapy: In patient or out-patient…typically every day for the first 5-6 days, than every other day until the symptomology has subsided. These nutrient bags can contain proteins, vitamins, electrolytes, and other elements necessary for the body-mind to heal. The advantage of IV therapy is that all essential cofactors bypass compromised gut function. Only when the healing occurs will the symptoms of withdrawal disappear totally. Diarrhea is uncommon in those that receive IV nutrient therapy…but for those not so fortunate, Imodium A-D seems to work well in most.
3) Oral nutrition: Increase the right proteins!!!! Proteins are the building blocks for neurotransmitters and neurotransmitter receptors…as well as the building blocks for your natural opiate receptors
· For 3 weeks you must remove all red meats from your diet. Red meat has chemical components that increase inflammation and pain. Fish, chicken, eggs are good sources of protein. If you are having a hard time taking in solid foods go to a health food store and buy protein powders that can be made into smoothies or drinks. You absolutely must have increased protein intake…proteins are the building blocks for all enzymes, neurotransmitters, and enzyme receptors in the body. No chemical works in the body without receptors. Just like opioids have to have opioid receptors—which are down regulated during methadone use—this is the reason people have long-lasting pain and aggravation coming off methadone…this isn’t much of a problem with heroin use because of it’s short half-life…proteins are essential for the repair work in recovery…I now use a formulation made by Neuroresearch…their Neuroreplete/D-5 protein formulas works well for those coming off of methadone, methamphetamines and benzodiazepines or any drug for that matter… and try to find a doctor close to you that will help you get his product…in fact I treat all my methadone withdrawal patients with this formula
· L-Methionine—a sulfur bearing amino acid…necessary for the production of S-Adenosyl-methionine (SAM-e)…SAM-e is a necessary cofactor in the production of the master neurotransmitters—serotonin, dopamine, adrenalin, and nor-adrenalin…this must be added to any amino acid therapy directed at rebuilding neurotransmitter production and function…500 mg—two twice per day
· Increase your intake of raw fruits and vegetables…you get little or nothing from canned foods…fresh fruits and veges are loaded with fiber which help bind and remove toxins from your body…they also normalize gut function
· Stay off candy, and other sugar heavy foods
· Drink lots of good water, green teas are good for the antioxidants and anti-inflammatory properties…no cokes or soda waters for three weeks
· When capable you must start exercising…swimming is best because it is low impact exercise…yoga…tai chi…walking daily…detoxing or otherwise…exercise is a normal component of good health
Supplements: Some need less and some more…remember the efficacy of all nutrition and supplement use is ultimately guided by your genetics…and we are all different to some degree…This is the value of seeing a good Naturopathic physician in the state you are in…The fact is that very few Medical Doctors know anything about nutrition…70%-75% of the standard medical schools in this country have absolutely no nutritional classes what-so-ever…in the other 25 %--nutrition is often a 14-20 hour block of education and this is commonly an elective…Naturopathic physicians that are educated in a medical school environment are taught nutrition extensively with the associated biochemistry.
· I use the following with all types of drug and alcohol recovery…. ·
with a strong mineral component: in gel caps only…an excellent quality multivitamin is absolutely necessary…remember that vitamins and minerals are cofactors/coenzymes for repair, healing, and normal function of the body…most times I have patients double up on multivitamins for the first 3-4 weeks
see above ·
Fish oils, or flax seed oil
necessary for repair and proper function of cellular membranes…anti-inflammatory…these need to be mixed omega 3, omega 6, omega 9 oils—4000 to 6000 mg per day in split doses…although some can be purchased as liguids and mixed with your smoothies.
· If you don’t do the drinks…get proteins as
free amino acids
L-Glutamine 500mg caps
…at least 2000-3000 mg per day…split the dose so that your doing it at least twice per day…helps heal the gut and the building block for GABA…the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter…helps slow things down…Do not take GABA as a supplement…GABA is make in the brain…when out side the brain the molecule is to large to cross the blood brain barrier…the building block for GABA is L-Glutamine or Glutamic acid…these building blocks readily cross the blood brain barrier.
Valarian Root 450 mg
: Botanical that reduces anxiety and helps one to sleep…Kava, Jamaican Dog Wood, Lemon Balm, Avena are all nervine botanicals which can be used together or by self…I find the doses for each individual varies but typically 1000 to 1500 mg every 4 hours.
…dosages vary…this is a hormone released from the pinal gland in the human body at night time for sleep…this is essential for those coming off opioids…in my experience as little as 1 mg to 30 mg has been effective…do what you have to do…I’ve had addicts coming off $100.00 a day habits sleep 4 hours the first night…start low and add 3-5 mg every half-hour till sleep…research on healthy volunteers using up to 100 mg of melatonin in a single dose shows little side effects…Melatonin is also known as a very strong antioxidant with 1000 times the potency as Vit E…Take only at night when you would be going to bed at the regular time…the room must be dark…that’s the way this hormone is released in the natural state…
Full Spectrum antioxidants:
relieves inflammation and helps normalize inflammatory pathways and reduces damaging molecules (free radicals) present in the system while detoxing
2000-3000 mg per day divided doses…
Reduced L-Glutathione 300mg per day:
Helps liver detox metabolites of methadone…Detoxing agents can be found in many products…most in combinations…
Research has shown that methadone, and drug use in general, has profound effects on the adrenal glands. In fact, research shows that there is a profound negative effect by methadone on the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis. This is why those that withdraw from methadone have protracted fatigue and problems with anxiety and insomnia. I often use freeze dried adrenal extracts in treatment with fairly good results. You’ll find these products listed under names such as Adrenal Plus, or Adrenplus…the starting dose is around 1000 mg per day in split doses.
Milk Thistle with alpha-Lipoic Acid
is one combination that I use extensively---for liver repair and detoxification…1200 to 1500 mg of milk thistle and 400 mg of lipoic acid per day in split doses This is the basics. There is absolutely no way to eliminate all the problems associated with withdrawal from methadone...one must have a supportive environment and often with daily visits from a compassionate health care provider…This will not kill you…it will be a miserable event…what kills most is the movement back to street drugs to ward off the side effects of withdrawal. If fact, cold turkey deaths coming off opioids and methadone are rare and usually associated with other health problems, or overdosing on prescription medications…withdrawal from methadone is much less of a risk than total withdrawal from alcohol. I wish you all luck on this endeavor…My compassion and empathy goes out to you…Ultimately, I know that you can do this…after all…it has to be done.
other than the RX's that I am prescribed I am following this regimen above as if my life depended on it, go to Wal-Mart first get what you can there, then go to GNC or any supplement store, it cost me about $200 but I can tell a difference..pleeeeaaaasssseee try this!
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