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Who's been free from Sub for over a year?

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Skinny, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Skinny

    Skinny Well-Known Member

    Luv, it is impossible. I did not even want to ad post to this myself but from the start the thread subject was ignored. I understand somewhat, addicts are simply always looking for an easier way. I am detoxed myself and I still look for an easier way on a daily basis. So I understand really. But in the end, somehow there should be a sticky here to prevent new users. That could save so many from this horror.
    HT, your story is positive, I just can't help myself from being the vilian on sub issues.
    I wanted to know. You said you could not quit hydro and tht you were able to quit after sub. Do you think that is because of the help sub gave you, or was it because of the end of the road? There is a big difference. And I know it will never be able to convince addicts, but if somehow we could comprehend how much easier the raod to recovery would be if we just stopped using weaker drugs like hydro then that would be a miracle.
    I truly believe that most of us simply avoid the detox horror until the end of the raod. The mind is very strong. When it faces the last resort it can do anything. HOw great would it be if we could see that before actually getting the the end? It may be a impossible concept to get this across to addicts. The wanting the next easy step is so OVERWHELMING in our minds. We fight off all logic to get to the next releif. Each level our lifes suck. We start on hydro and think life is over 2 years later, Then we find out oxy has no acetaminiphin in it so what an easy way to go. Then Methadone is so cheap and really last long. Then Sub is a miracle. Each level we reach the end. Each level we cant take it. But then there is that next level that is easier. We were told as children nothing is free. There is no free rides, there is no easy way out. But when you are on a freaking opaite, you have no logic. You may think you do, but you dont. I know there are people out there that have the power to read the facts and decide against this s**ttttt. I really want to let them know how bad it is. Does not matter how few are strong enough read and then not use sub. For each one that never used it, it is worth it. Give it another 2-5 years. We have not even begun to know how bad this shttt is!

    SKINNY
     
  2. jdude

    jdude Well-Known Member

    Hey Skinny,
    I'm with you.I really feel I was lied to and used while in the inpatient.
    Of course at that point I had once again cold turkey'd off of 6 plus yrs of 400mg oxys. And after having to check in thru an er and waiting for 13hrs I wouldve believed the Easter bunny.

    I think it was Desi that talked about the $$$$$$ it brings in. I really think that is the main focus of the docs.
    But then I did it all wrong, after 8 months on Sub I tapered off of 32mg in two weeks. Really BAD move.

    The top 3 mistakes I've made in the last 10 yrs;
    1-Stealing time from my boys being on any drug
    2-Taking Suboxone
    3-taking Oxy's!

    But the Sub was a real eyeopener. My heart bleeds when I read the new posts and get to the word SUBOXONE ! I am 3 weeks off of it and I know the c##p I'm still going thru is the Sub.
    If I had known I'd have never used it. Sorry Bham, I'm only praying to get to a year at this point!
    jdude
     
  3. Desi

    Desi Active Member

    To: Whomever Is Interested;
    Bupe is a drug used to get people who are addicted to something that is f***ing up their lives;
    maybe homeless...due to drugs
    maybe HIV positive...due to drugs
    maybe prostituting...due to drugs
    maybe abusing their small children...due to drugs
    maybe beating their spouses...due to drugs
    maybe burglarizing their best friends homes...due to drugs
    maybe living a life of quite f***ing desperation...due to drugs
    maybe (and you fill in the rest)...due to drugs.

    What bupe does is break the cycle for some, and allow some time for healing to take place.
    It should not be FOREVER,
    it should not be for even a short term detox,
    but an interruption, so those that wish to use the time given to them from that bupe interruption have time to straighten out.

    If you can't get your s**t together within the time that bupe gives you then you're f***ed in my point of view, and that's true for ALL opiates/drugs.
    They're nothing more than crutches we use to hide the s**t we do NOT want to FACE.
    If everything was fine, then why pop 10 pills at once or inject a couple of bagfuls?
    So bupe has its place in recovery, and I'm using my time that it has given me as productively as I can/know how to.


    Bupe ONLY gives you time,,,, a short period of time that should be used productively,,,,so I agree with your basic premise that it's a lousy alternative to your drug of choice, but if used CORRECTLY, it can get some people into a better place in life.

    Everything has its place, including bupe, but only for a short period of time. So let's not scare everyone away; the newcomers may actually need this forum, as I have and have gleaned enormous amounts of information from it.
    Don't you believe that's the key....helping people know the difference?
    Regards;
    Desi
     
  4. Desi

    Desi Active Member

    I realize that bupe is a drug thrown out to the addict population with practically NO studies, at least in the USA, to back up it's efficacy and safety.
    But, aside from the unknown side-effects (trust me the government will eventually find out) and it's potential problems that go along with long-term usage.
    I hate bupe, most people here hate bupe, most people hate their previous abusive lives, BUT WANT to get that chapter of their lives behind them...and, thus they use bupe, albeit temporarily.

    Des
     
  5. HToutlaws

    HToutlaws Well-Known Member

    GREAT POST DESI!

    Every time I would ween myself down to around 20 hydro's a day, the stress of trying to mentally deal with not being high enough would send me right back up the consumation chart again.

    I did ween off of suboxone over a period of time, kept myself busy the best I could, when I was around 30 days clear, the detox Doc was calling me to get me back in there again to "Talk".

    I had a chance to get right back on the sub train and refused. I could NEVER even come close to this mindset while on hydro's. In fact, I felt SOBER when I started the Sub maintenance program. It wasn't until a few months ago that I realized I was high on sub. Never thought I was before.

    Keep in mind folks, we are all here cause we are debating our personal experiences. I do understand how Bhamskinny feels. I was lied to a few years back as well about the miracle drug. However the stuff did help me get back to where I am today. Which in my mind is priceless. So how do you argue these points? Every person has a different situation in their lives. It is up to that person to put themselves in the right place to succeed. Whether it's a mind set, or a living arrangement, or whatever. Some have a better shot than others.

    I still remember them telling me I would be fine after 5-6 day's. However after looking back at it, if she told me it would be a month or so, would I have been mentally strong enough? She was right that It was a tough 5-6 day's. On Day 5 I'll bet I did 100 curls trying to release some dopamine (which ended up working) and every day after that I just got more determined to beat this stuff.:(

    I wouldn't go take the monthly test on my liver back last June cause I wanted to force her to remove me from the suboxone.
    I weened down from 8mg every 2-4 weeks down to 2mg. I jumped from there cause I felt I was spending money on the detox doc just for more drugs. I did try to ween from 8mg to back in January of last year, and lost my mind weening down to 6mg a day.
    She told me "you have to be ready". Yet 5 months later I was ready. When i went in for my liver test a couple levels were a bit high. She told me i had to hit the hospital monthly for this test.
    I was also getting slack at work for not being sharp at remembering stuff, and was honest about my sub addiction with them.
    I had hurt my back at work, and they knew my situation with the hydro's, the oxy's, and the pill mill buying. I had legit records from three doc's, so it was pretty easy to make three/four calls a week to complain about my back, and give out another credit card number.[B)]

    I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE OVERNIGHT SHIPPING MONEY BACK ALONE!:(

    I'm rambling. Time to end this post. I always remember stuff I should of added to my post AFTER I hit "post new reply".
    I just care about you guys and am sympathetic</u> during your weening, your jumps, and your Post-PAWS. I felt alone during my jump, and just want to help any way I possibly can.[^]

    Goodbye Opiates....FOREVER!
     
  6. jdude

    jdude Well-Known Member

    Hey All,
    The real problems with Sub start with the docs.
    How many Sub users were told this is good for a week or two MAX !?? How many of the docs know anything about the side effects?

    I had found that "wonder site" also about 2 or 3 days into an Oxy WD.
    The first time I was given Sub and said what's that? I was told it was "to help you stabilize during WD".

    I was also later told I needed to take 32mg/day for the pain relief. I don't know a darn thing about receptors, but I really don't want to know(and no doc will or can tell) what I did to my brain going from a high oxy use to a high long term Suboxone use.

    My Sub doc didnt even know some of the side effects that were listed on the pamphlet!! And then kept telling me about the pain I would be in if I didnt continue the Sub for at least 18-24 months.
    The doc that had me up to 400mg of Oxy plus morphine for break-thru pain didnt do me any favors. With each increase I KNEW
    where I was heading.

    The Sub docs either flat out lie, or simply don't know any better!And that still doesnt address the issue of the Sub itself.
    It may have started as a stabilization med for detox,
    but it has NO place in any long term or maint use.
    Sorry guys I know I'm new to this, but I still can't say I hate opiates. I hate my dependancy on them. But I'm with Skinny, I do hate Suboxone and the money magnetic docs attached to it.
     
  7. Desi

    Desi Active Member

    Jdude;
    I hate opiates probably as much as you do, BUT I hate bupe even more. The point I'm trying to make is really quite simple....that as the Bible says, everything has its place and its time....and bupe does have some time available for the person who wants to become eventually drug free.

    I'm aware of the EVIL that buprenorphine can cause IF it is taken inappropriately.
    However, there are HUMAN BEINGS that are taking the f***ing drug every SINGLE DAY and they are not WASTING into never never land.

    I agree wholeheartedly that bupe should be used for a short period of time and also at a low dose, but please give me a break when some people SAY that bupe will destroy your life. Let these people back up their positions with some type of evidence.
    One person's problems with bupe is NOT ENOUGH! If that person had a real rough ride with bupe, I actually feel bad for that person indeed, but can NOT say to others that it is completely useless and will ruin their lives.
    It is an OPTION for people to think about and I hope that people considering bupe will consider both sides of what seems to be an extreme point of view....to consider that LOW doses of bupe are and will help you become drug-free.
    Do not suffer illusions; being drug-free does not mean being drug-free.
     
  8. Ratch

    Ratch Well-Known Member

    Desi,
    I rarely quote people, but I wanted to include your entire paragraph to make sure I took nothing out of context. This "interruption of other drugs" you speak of.. Just how long does this period take most individuals? It just cant fit into the "short term detox" window.. I cant speak for others so I will just state my own experience....

    Every time I quit other opioids, I was back to feeling 100% normal within a few weeks..even after years of abuse.
    If I actually took the time and effort to use ANY recovery type program, I may have stayed clean and gotten my life together without "chemical assistance" ... maybe even sheer willpower may work for others..odd's say about 5% can do it that way...

    Now when I did my little stint on bupe to get my life together, I never quite felt "normal" once I quit.
    I cant say I was "forced" to relapse...there really are no excuses. Actually let me rephrase that "I had 1,000,000 excuses" but the main "excuse" was that I just wanted to "feel normal/good/motivated again" which caused me to relapse for a few days 15 months AFTER I quit bupe, and then a few more times after that.

    Basically what I alone am saying is... if I just quit oxy, hydro, or H.(CT or "EZ fast detox") I would have felt normal/motivated a LOT quicker and I would have been able to "get on with my life" while feeling great/normal.

    Coming off drugs like bupe or Methadone you feel "not normal" for so damn long it is very difficult to "get on with your life" because you feel so unmotivated and crappy for so long..(there are always exceptions..this is just my case)

    So... Which way would have been better?
    1) CT off my DOC and "try to get my house in order" while working to stay clean?

    OR

    2) Get on my "miracle buy/bide my time pill" get my life into order while only "slightly high" and only nodding out "once in a while" and then 'jump/taper/CT' and feel crappy for an undetermined amount of time.. hope I keep the house or my job I built in order while recoveri
     

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