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The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Bup4pain, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. Sluggo

    Sluggo Well-Known Member

    firstly, it would generate more response if you created a "new topic" within the forum. not lots of folks read the posts up here.

    secondly, going down to 8mg seems the logical step to me. give it a shot. 12 mg is alotta bupe. i'm gonna go out on a limb and say you'll feel better on less bupe.

    thirdly, read the "sticky" folder here entitled "less is more".

  2. archaoz

    archaoz Member

    Thanks. I`ll try the "new topic". And probably go lower as well. How come they always want people to go higher? 16 mg is the standard daily dose here in Scandinavia. Seems pretty hight to me.
  3. Sluggo

    Sluggo Well-Known Member

    also...when you start a new post, include as much info as you can. helps people help you.

    lots of folks here with experience with long-term bupe use. I do not....I only used it as a short-term detox tool.

    look for jdude. he's the go-to guy for info regarding bupe maintenance, and bupe detox.

    welcome to ODR...we're a lively and loving bunch of folks....try to help as much as we can.

  4. archaoz

    archaoz Member

    Again - thanks.
    I`ve been reading for the past few hours, and I am slowly starting to realize that there is so much I didn`t know about subutex. My goal was to be on it til I finish my studies, but I`m beginning to see that it might be a hell of a lot harder than I ever imagined it would be. I actually feel like, you know, I`ve been had a little. But I guess the docs just don`t know. It can be a big mistake to trust?m, thats for sure...[xx(]
  5. ShockingIyInsane

    ShockingIyInsane Well-Known Member

    When I used H/Oxy's I felt like a junkie, I wanted OUT of that life more than anything. I was a very strong person at this point in time, I was constantly quitting and relapsing. I spent most of a year in junkie limbo, constantly relapsing for a few days just to quit again for a few weeks, couple months. Take methadone for a couple weeks, quit that for a month, start to feel better and relapse on H for 7 days, this is how it was for me before I got on subs.

    From the day I started suboxone I was out of that lifestyle. The first few months on subs were kinda crappy, I was tired all the time, didn't really do much, just work and home but it was a normal life. Once the spring came I felt good, I was full of hope and excitement about the future, I was living a non junkie lifestyle and I was happy. I started doing things I did when I was sober, I'd play golf, go hang out with clean friends, I got off my butt and did normal things.

    My plan was to be on suboxone for a year, nothing longer. As that year drew closer I didn't focus back on my addiction, I was still doing well, still happy and still full of hope about my future, I had no reason to quit. It's hard to quit something when you're happy and you don't feel it's running your life, you know?

    Then the wall came crumbling down, I ran out of suboxone

    When I ran out I felt like a junkie again, I was freaking out, scared, all the normal junkie thoughts. I found methadone and got em right away, right back to my old habits, anything to avoid being sick. If methadone wasn't there I don't know what would've happened, I probably would've caved after some length of time and got a buzz on.

    It's just so hard for people to quit a drug they feel helps them, it goes against everything we're told really. If something helps you stop doing heroin then how can it be bad? I feel that's why so many people are stuck on suboxone, you don't have that desire to get your life in order because it is in order, so you think.

    Everyone here has been through withdrawl, getting off suboxone is like getting off any other opiate, that's how you have to think if you want off it or you will panic and that will make it very hard to stop. You've done it before, let this be your last time.
  6. takingtheorangepill

    takingtheorangepill Well-Known Member

    I'm still here-Bupe Hotel

    Guess you really can never leave huh?
    A while ago I decided not to post here anymore until I had really made some progress in detoxing from this, medicine[xx(].
    Ok, so maybe it was over a year ago, maybe two??? Time has a funny way of passing you by. Just like your life, while you're coasting on this junk.
    Why am I posting again now? Well, not posting sure didn't help! It only helped me stay in this limbo for longer than I think I should have. Did I mention that it feels like my life is passing me by?
    When I last updated, I think I was prescribed 2 or 4 mg per day. And at one point I had made it to 1mg per day on a taper.
    Well--my old doctor was being rather nazi-like in cutting-down my pills, and he had no bedside manners to speak of.
    Soo, I found myself a NEW doctor. This one decided that I wasn't taking ENOUGH, and that my poor body was in some kind-of permanent withdrawal state causing tachycardia and heart problems. (not to mention the sweats and hot-flashes).
    I see a few old-timers here and a few (too few) have SUCCEEDED! but, even on this board, there doesn't appear to be a one-size-fits-all PLAN to quit this stuff.
    Some of my thoughts, and I'm sure that I could be wrong, are that maybe just maybe, when I really try to make my next break from it, that it won't be so bad.
    I would just love to be able to walk off this, but to tell the truth I'm STILL behaving like an addict and almost running short at the end of every month.
    By the way if you're still reading this, I'm up to 2, 8mg tablets per day. With the lovely long half-life and the build-up and all, this is just a ridiculous amount to be taking I'm sure.
    Sorry to say this, I think I may have to switch to a short-acting opiate to get over what ever hump I encounter from Suboxone w-dral.
    The depression really IS intolerable for me.
    I'm also considering inpatient. And, I'm still thinking that I really like the idea of taking narcan after day 9 or even 11, or 14, post-bupe, to REALLY FLUSH this stuff off my receptors.
    (that is assuming that I have my info. correct, that bupe metabolites can be detected in one's urine up to 9-11 days after last use)
    I never attended a methadone program, or had my script compounded, (I don't even know if that's legal with this stuff?), but I wonder why Suboxone© isn't done as a "blind-taper" like I've heard before can be done with Methadone?
    Has anyone had any luck with inpatient or professional treatment programs?
    I'm willing, and kind-of hoping to have some kind-of life again, but its scary just diving-off into not knowing what to expect-I'm worried that I'm looking at months of pain and depression and suffering.
  7. Ripple

    Ripple Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean about the cardiac symptom. They are the biggest issues that dog me. I am down to .50 mg. My issues with Sub docs is instead of moving the Sub dose, my not manage the symptom in other ways. For example, my next appointment I am going to ask for clonidine-not klonipin (a blood pressure medicine which is useful in treating opiate wd symptoms). I feel confident if I could manage the cardiac wd sysmptoms I could continue my taper and jump pretty soon.

    If getting off is your goal and your doc thinks you need to be on more, maybe this one is not the right doc either. Honestly, I have fired 2 Sub docs that were not 100% supportive of me tapering me off Sub. They work for you, not the other way around.

    The 1mg you got to was great but probably a bit hight to jump. Did you feel bad at 1? How long there?
  8. takingtheorangepill

    takingtheorangepill Well-Known Member

    Thanks Ripple, to answer your question, I hovered at >2, around the 1mg-2 for awhile maybe a year and a half. I started-out with the 4mg pills, and the little chips i thought were fine.
    But I really had worked my way into some kind of withdrawl/detox corner from heck, and my doctor at that time was cutting me back and then he started getting snippy & mean with me about it when i complained about the symptoms.
    Plus the fact that every sub. doc i've been to so far does not seem real concerned with a patient holistically or concerning any other physical symptoms, (ymmv but that's my experience).
    So the doctor I'm with now seemed like a Godsend at the time. I went from no more than 4mg per day, and some months-long taper-downs to around the 1mg level, to 16mg PER DAY.
    I sometimes hope that maybe I have SO much of this stuff in me that it cancels itself out.
    And that's where I've been for a coupla years now.
    A lot of trouble with my vision now. Fatigue and a pretty much constant baseline depression, PLUS, even-though I'm in a pretty comfortable fog most of the time, I KNOW that I'm not really living my life if that makes any sense. Its like I'm just kind-of "here", but not really.
    I had a major issue and chaos in my life before, my marriage namely, and that's long-gone, so besides the normal day-to-day stuff, there isn't any unusual stress that I have to deal-with.
    I'm waay past being grateful to get out of the rut of just trying to not get dopesick, AND, even-though I still have some addictive behaviors & cravings to use a drug to change how i feel at the moment, I do think its something I can manage.
    The only thing that's holding me back is fear of never-ending depression. (I haven't even been able to cut-back enough lately to get that boost of emotions to convince me that its worth it),
    AND more importantly, I do have a fear of pain in my future. Or discovering that I have pain that I didn't know that I have. (physical pain). Or other illness. Because I've found, like W.Burroughs, (not to romanticize drugs, but I find it to be true for me), that one good thing about dope is that it really does keep me pretty healthy.
    Which I guess is stupid and a pathetic excuse, since I've already convinced myself that my doctor would let me go back on if I couldn't handle pain.
    So, I'm scared.
    Every month when I barely make it to my next full bottle of pills, I tell myself that I'm going to do it, and then I don't.
    I tell myself that I'm NOT going to use more than the 2 pills per day that I'm s'posed to use, that I'm actually going to wind-up with EXTRA pills at the end of the month, but usually I have a mini-taper at the end of the month just to get by.
    I'm usually short by about 5 pills, but sometimes a lot more. So of course by the time that I get the fresh new bottle i take it easy on myself for a few days and overdo it.
    And the time just FLYS by, rinse, recycle,repeat...typical addict, drug-abusing behavior.
    Typical complaints, only I will say that the tolerance-increase doesn't feel like such an emergency as with other narcotics.-that it seems more manageable.
    Now I guess I've painted myself into another corner. I have made some big & baby-steps while on this junk, but I'm missing part of my life.
    Mainly the emotional part. I actually get surprised if I manage to feel any emotions at all.
    And I worry that that's just getting worse & worse as time goes by.
    That's another reason why I'm considering inpatient. I wonder if my "missing" emotions will all try to come out at once? !!!??? Or if I'll even go psychotic?
    So, fear is the main block, and being a drug-addict of course.
    Just browsing here is helping me remember a few little tricks and tactics to deal with a real detox. Like the "percentage'-rule. That seemed to have really worked for me until I stalled-out in stayed in withdrawl for too long.
    I guess it looks-like the "long-slooooow-taper" is still the recommended thing to do, but that kind-of sucks when I get 60 8mg pills per month, and then panic a little when I start running low.
    and then......
  9. jdude

    jdude Well-Known Member

    Hey ttop.....what's your plan with the sub? Your statement: "Typical complaints, only I will say that the tolerance-increase doesn't feel like such an emergency as with other narcotics.-that it seems more manageable.",going from 2mg to 16mg+ doesn't really seem 'manageable'? Whether or not if the sub is turning on you?

    But putting your quest of post sub aside momentarilly,yes IP is always a good option to start recovery.


    <center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>
  10. FoolishHeart

    FoolishHeart Well-Known Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    16? after 4mg it becomes ineffecitve i thought

    i have never taken more than 4mg at a time because after that, i hear it gets u a buzz
    and the last thing i need now is a sub buzz.

    to give you an idea how strong sub is, if a person who doesn't do opiates and trys a sub, can get high off of a crumb, 0.5

    take it with caution. sub is a miracle if you use it properly, 3 to 4 days max

    unfortunely, where i live, people use it to cope until their next run. a true shame
  11. neilb

    neilb New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    Hi every one, well benn on heroin and methadone for ten years, and even more scary been on subutex for ten years, ive wrote to the factories where they make the **** and asked for infomation about how sub should be used, but no reply, my doctor hasnt got a clue and I hate being like this, ive read that subutex alters some thing in your brain and thats why its so hard to come of, ive done cold turkey of heroin, a methadone detox and got myself down to 0.2 of sub per day and then did a home detox, I had a nurse coming every day to sort out pills for my detox but after two months of ratteling I gave up and went and used, but only for a month then went back on sub 8mill, ive just got it down to 6mill a day, I have a family a son and a daughter and I dont want to be taking this awfull tablet all my life, I was told it was really easy to come of, that I wouldnt feel it, and yes I was lied to just like countless other people............
  12. It's A Long Battle

    It's A Long Battle New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    It's so hard because you get so many differing opinions off of so many sites. Here is the honest to God truth about suboxone from someone who has taken it, gone through the withdrawals, relapsed on oxycodone, gotten divorced as a result, taken more oxycodone, and finally is back taking suboxone.

    I took oxycodone/percocet/oxycontin all orally, never by injection/snort for roughly six years. I started taking percocet just for fun, six years later I was taking 3-4 30mg oxycodone tablets at once. I also chewed up those nasty hard plastic-like Oxycontin pills from 10mg - 30mg that they give out now. Yeah, I know - Sick, how did I do it? Persistent and ruining my teeth.

    So all in all at my worst, I would go through a script of 120 30mg oxycodone tablets in about 7-10 days on average. The rest of the month, I would scramble to borrow, beg, and plead family and doctors for help. Life sucked, period!

    I started suboxone in January 2011 to save what was left of my marriage. In about April 2010, my pain clinic doctor who had previously dismissed me and started me on methadone (I didn't go that route) put me back on three oxycontin tablets a day. Four months later I found my wife in bed with another guy and was divorced shortly after. To say the least, I was devastated again, I took pills until about October 2011 before I went back to the suboxone route I tried in January 2011.

    The first time through in January 2011, I was taking the 8mg films, I took roughly 24-32mg per day. If you see this dosage, don't freak out, a lot of people take that much depending on what your addiction was before starting on subs. The highest dosage at my clinic allowed is 32mg per day. I am on a prescription basis, I go in once a month, they call in my script, and that's it. In March 2011, I tapered off of the suboxone myself from 24 mg. I took 24 one day, 16 the next day, 8 the next day, 4 the next, 2 the next, 2 the next and quit. I had some withdrawals, but NOWHERE near Oxy withdrawal's.

    Suboxone is a miracle drug if you are in withdrawal's. It takes all those symptoms and makes them go away. Do you feel normal? I don't know what that is anymore. I wish I could say yes to that question because even right now as I contemplate tapering off again, I still don't feel normal. I don't necessarily crave pills. Although, I do have days where I feel like what's the difference between popping these vs. popping oxy's. It's hard for me to believe that there is a simple cure to all of this. I know there isn't.

    I am going to start my taper tomorrow and go from there. I just feel like opiods are opiods whether it's oxycodone or buprenorphine, the only difference with subs is I feel a little more energetic, and don't spend every penny I have on pills.

    I will not go back on oxy, I have made that oath to myself, I lost the best person in my life, the love of my life to drugs. I started lying to someone I was with from age 17-26. I never thought she would leave me, and I found out the hard way. No one wants to come home to find your wife with someone else, I did. She can use every excuse in the book and it doesn't forgive what she did, but I put her in that situation. If I had treated her right, I would still be married right now. I am making my vows to sobriety before I take the step in finding a new someone. Maybe that will be in Minnesota, maybe it won't. I am here if you have questions. Email or PM.
  13. banned

    banned Guest

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    I am glad someone was finally able to get everyone straight! :)

    Let us know when you are detoxing from suboxone, lots of people have experience with that here.
  14. spring

    spring Administrator

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    I'm confused. First, I think the date April 2010 is a typo? You meant April 2011 correct?
    My other question is...Why would your pain clinic put you back on oxy after you tapered off the Sub? This must mean you have chronic pain? And if so, then how are you planning to deal with the pain once you taper from the Sub again?
    It sounds to me like your body barely had time to clear itself of the Sub built up in your system before you returned to the oxy.What are you planning on doing different this time around in order to stay off all opiates?
  15. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    there will always be a reason to throw in the towel and get high... in my eyes, no difference in Methadone/suboxone/herion. Just because it is legal dosnt mean its good for you. When you get clean then you can help another. You have not a clue on how to help another get clean. Once you do it yourself, then reach out to help another. No one needs help on staying on maintanince dope! Way too easy, like taking a dump daily. Oh.. you dont know what that is either.

    I know this sounds harsh. But hun... I have been on sub. I surely learned NOTHING while on it except how to continue feeding my habit.
  16. ontoolong

    ontoolong Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT


    I love how you cut to the chase, when I need a slap to reality I will certainly ask you. You are right, we all know how to stay on the stuff but coming off and staying off is the kicker. As you told I have to want it, I am telling myself that now whenever I have the thought to take a little extra of the sub cause I feel crappy. I know it will get worse, I started stocking up on the lovely imodium for when the time comes. Sub only replaces what ever else you were on and is by far the worse w/d i have ever had. I will be checking in daily, trying to stay on the 3mg for now and then drop to 2mg, following the posts. One second at a time
  17. Lula14

    Lula14 New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    Hello all,

    First time commenter on this site(forgive my spelling).. I am currently on day 8 off of suboxone...that which I will now refer to as the pharmaceuticals devil drug. I was on sub for about a year and a half.

    This is the second time I have tried to kick it and I have finally found a doctor who is willing to work with me because she is equally as interested in finding out how to get people off of it. She began prescribing it because the company sold it as a miracle drug and she's been to their conventions and everything! She had such a poor ratio of getting addicts off opiates that she was willing to try anything. (and by the way my doctor is a recovering addict herself which makes it even more awesome)

    Meds we tried that didn't work: Ritalin (for energy- made me even more anxious and sick). Phenobarbital- (no affect at all)
    Meds I'm currently using that work: klonopin( helps mellow my stomach anxiety- at least that's what I call it, ******* hurts like hell nd feels like a pit in my lower left abdomen.
    Clonidine- life saver for cramping and to put me asleep.
    Thats it for the meds- occasionally ill use benedrl to sleep too. It's the lethargy that is killing me now. First few days I could work out but not these last few. She says the hard core symptoms should last about ten days, but I didn't even start feeling the until day two. So who knows.

    I was also told to stay off the message boards but I'm just looking for people with hope and inspiration and maybe I could possibly offer the same! I am an active member in AA as that- believe it or not- is my drug of choice, and boy have I been craving that. I got hooked on Vicodin for a year and a half before and after a neck and arm surgery from an accident.

    Just a small note: I absolutely loved the sub. I looked forward to every single dose because it provided me with a high where I could accomplish whatever I wanted. That's why I knew I had to get off of it and why I am so scared that I will never have that motivation again.

    Ok, that's it...just thought I'd chime in and hopefully be able to share some experience, strength , and hope! Please pray for me as I pray for all of you!
  18. Too.late4roses

    Too.late4roses New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT


    I used to go to the local detox all the time and id use before id go in because we werent sure if we would be able to see the doctor in time that day or see him the next day so we'd make sure we werent sick as long as possible before our first dose. i could do a decent size shot and then take a 4-8 mg strip and have no problems. but recently i have seriously wanted off the crap.. and everytime i take a sub it makes me sick. and i mean WORSE than ANY ANY ANY withdrawal ive EVER IN MY ENTIRE 7 yrs of using experienced! and i am at this point PETRIFIED TO TAKE A SUBOXONE.

    the first time was about 2 weeks ago, it had been about 13-14 hrs since my last shot. and i took it and went through the horrific withdrawal for about 3-4 hrs and then finally called my boy and had him bring me over a couple bags so i could releive myself from that night mare. then this last time i waited almost 27hrs after my last shot. i had waited until i was actually sick on my own from not having anything in my system. and i tried not to think about it. as soon as i got my prescription from the pharmacy, i walked out to the car and ripped open one of my strips and threw it under my tongue. it was full 8 mg strip.and i waited at least an hr to really assess and decided that it had once again made me go into even worse withdrawals.

    This time i just didnt wait the 3-4 hrs for it to get horrific. i called someone to relieve the pain, and this time it didnt go away as easy as doing a small shot of a couple bags. this time i had to get over a bundle in me before i actually finally got ANY RELIEF. for those who dont know a bundle is 13 bags and if i am correct from what i hear it is a little less than a full gram of heroin if you dump out all the little baggies together.

    So mind you, i havent been hiding this from the doctor that has been prescribing me my strips. his advice to me is to take half in morning and half at night. but that seemed to me to not be the answer. bc he doesnt make sence half the time anyways. i really dont think he has a good idea of what he is doing anyways. he just writes the scripts and send us on our way. bc when i first told him about these experience was, your taking them too early!! which i am not an idiot

    and i knew that eventually my tolerence and my body wouldnt be able to do that anymore, doing some H and then taking a sub not to long after. but obviously that cant be the case when i waited until i was sick from not having and h to take the sub and i still became hopelessly ill from the sub.

    SO, when i confided in a friend. she told me that i was supposed to wait 72 hrs! i have NEVER in my life heard to wait that long to take a sub after my last shot. first off it would defeat the whole purpose of the sub if i was going to go 3 days without anything i might as well kick cold turkey right!

    so i asked another friend. and He said that this starts happening when our tolerence gets too high and weve been using for a long while at a pretty high rate. my normal use is 3 bundles a day, if i can get my hands on more obviously its higher. but that is an estimate give or take. but in order for me to get high i have to do at least 10 bags in one shot. to get a decent high. and thats not even a nodding high, thats just a nice little rush.

    but i say this so you can see the level that i am at. i am a 24 year old female thats been on opiates on a daily basis for the last seven years. i didnt start really withdrawling until after i had my son, once i had,had him i dived into my addiction way deeper.

    So if anyone could be of assisstance or in some way share their experience strength and hope! bc i want off the **** but im pertrified to do subs. i need a solution. has anyone else ever had this same prob? is this an ALLERGIC REACTION?? should i ask to be switched to the subutex? is it the actual opiate BLOCKER, in the subOXONE, so is that why i should be switched to the subUTEX?

    or should i ask the doctor to refer me to a methadone clinic. something i really would much rather NOT do bc i dont want to go long term on that. bc that gets into your bones and you cant detox from that with subs or anything!! just can someone please help me and give me some kind of relief answer, comfort, SOMETHING PLEASE!! SORRY SO LONG, AND DETAILED I FELT THAT THE ONLY WAY TO GET ACCURATE RESPONSE TO MY INQUERY WAS TO BE DETAILED AND HONOST AND I GUESS LONG AND DRAWN OUT. IF ANY HELP, GOD I WOULDNT KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN WITH THANKS.
  19. ginvu

    ginvu New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT


    We addicts do have what's called an Idiosyncratic Allergic reaction to opioids If modern science really knows anything. I had been off methadone for 5 days and I still precipitated withdrawals when I took my first Suboxone at that time. 13 hours is just not enough IMO. You're supposed to score your withdrawal symptoms but IMO we tend to overestimate them. On my previous attempt with Suboxone I overestimated my withdrawal symptoms and precipitated horrible withdrawals just like you did. I know this is not what anybody wants to hear but the only way I was successfully able to get off methadone was as an inpatient. I know that getting off the Suboxone will not be a picnic but it won't be as bad as getting off methadone especially if you taper slowly and don't stay on it too long. Somewhere else in this thread I read that someone was using Klonopin to cope with their withdrawal symptoms. I wouldn't recommend that, benzodiazepine withdrawal is worse than opioid withdrawal and you can die from seizures. They had to wean me off of Klonopin with phenobarbital before they started the Suboxone.
  20. JBailey826

    JBailey826 New Member

    Re: The "Bupe Hotel" a place to share about BMT

    Hi Jay here and this is my first post on this site. I have been an addict of "all things opiates" for about 8 years. Im only 26 but i started very young. Ive been on suboxone on and off now for about 2 years and I will say this, "Opiate blockers" are much more difficult to get off of then your traditional opiates; hydro,oxy,morphine,heroin. Now the best thing you can do if you havent been on it for awhile, is get off as soon as possible. The longer you've been on it, the longer your body gets used to it. Remember opiate blockers have an extremely long half life, therefore (when taken everyday) your never off it, not even in your sleep. Traditional opiates do not cling to receptors like opiate blockers do. Now with that said, If your planning on quitting oxy or heroin, whatever. It is possible to take Bupe for 6days ONLY, and feel little to no withdrawal at all. I did that when I was 18 and had a huge heroin habit. I had 3 subs from a friend and took half a day for 6 days and felt no withdrawal period. Hope I helped

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