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Tapering suboxone naturally with amino acids, my experience.

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Sub-b-gone, Mar 18, 2016.

  1. Sub-b-gone

    Sub-b-gone Member

    Hey, I thought I would share my experience tapering off suboxone using amino acids and other vitamins/minerals and herbs. First I will give a brief summery of how I ended up here. 13 years ago I got hurt and doc started me on pain meds and as tolerance built I had to take more and more. The pain ended after about a year but I continued taking to keep from getting sick and so I could still be productive at work and home. After changing docs multiple times to keep them coming I heard of methodone and started maintenance program. After 4 years there I switched to suboxone which I don't like but it keeps w/ds away and keeps me productive. Now I am tapering down and ready to stop for good. I am currently tapered down to 0.3mg and plan to get much lower than that before I drop off. I know I can suffer through w/ds since I have done it before many times but don't just want to get off subs, I want off for good. I have done much research and found a great book called end your addiction now by dr gant that teaches simply and clearly how our brain works (in laymen's terms, it's super easy to read) and how opioids and other meds (like benzos and anitdepressants), with long term use can effect our brain and slow down our normal production of endorphens, dopamine, and Norepinephrine. The amino acids are supposed to 'Jump Start' your brain to get it working the way it should before it became dependent on outside substances. It is all very interesting imo. Our brain changes and adjusts to so many things. Short term opiate use is one thing but long term your brain starts making new opiate receptors (i.e. Tolerence) and eventually will slow down its endorphen production since the opiate is taking its place (I may not be wording everything correctly-the book explains it so much better). So when we stop taking that is why you get depressed and have no energy, you are not producing what you should be to get back to "normal". This is why after quitting for a while many relapse because they just want to feel 'normal' again (at least this is my experience). Basically the amino acids along with the vitamins and minerals (they all work together) give your brain what it needs to start producing its own endorphens as it should. He says to start taking them while tapering if possible since it can take 2-3 weeks to start seeing any effects. This, along with enough protein (I am taking whey protein daily) gives us what we need to stop relying on opiates and instead have our brain produce what it needs naturally. Not to say there won't be any w/ds but this should eliminate PAWS (that is the hope).

    Anyway, enough about that, I have started the amino acid dl-phenylalanine so far which seems to help some already and will be starting the rest soon and wanted to post my results here. Here is the recommended amino and vitamins from the book:

    Dl-phenylalanine (dl-pa): up to 2000mg 3 times a day 1 hour before meals. (Must be taken on an empty stomach otherwise it will not be effective) (can be substituted with d-phenylalanine if you have allot of anxiety or agitation)

    L-leucine: up to 500mg 3 times a day 1 hour before meals.

    L-methionine: up to 500mg 3 times a day 1 hour before meals.

    L-glycine: up to 2000mg with each dose of dl-pa.

    L-tyrosine: up to 2000mg 2 times daily.

    Also he lists several vitamins and minerals but after hours of researching I found the right mix in Thorne research citramins II - without copper.

    Also we need 30mg protein 3 times a day. Protein is key since we use it to produce endorphens.

    I recommend getting the book (got mine used for $4 shipped) since he explains it so much better and there may be other things you are low in as well. He has questionnaires to go through to see what is best for you.

    I will post back with what works for me after I start taking these. If you have any questions or comments feel free to post and I will answer best I can. I can give details about how I tapered if anyone is interested as well. Thanks,

    Sbg
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2016
  2. Fox face

    Fox face Moderator

    Welcome to ODR. I was only on Suboxone 7 months and have been off for 2 1/2 years. I only take a multivitamin daily. I did use protein drinks for a couple months after I jumped. I jumped somewhere around 1-2mg of Subs. The WD was pretty bad for the first month or so, but the mental aspect was a little longer. Getting off the opiate merry go round has by far been the best thing I have ever done.

    I'm glad you started a thread. Keep posting!
    Fox
     
    Sub-b-gone likes this.
  3. Sub-b-gone

    Sub-b-gone Member

    So to update, I am still at a daily dose of 0.3 mg and am dropping my dose on Monday to 0.25 mg. My current taper schedule has me jumping in 8-10 weeks. I stay at each dose for 2 weeks to allow for adjustments b/c of the long half-life of subs. Seems to be working well so far. Here is an illustration of my taper schedule plan:

    0.3 mg (8 mg strip cut into 27 pieces) - 2 weeks (almost completed this dose)
    0.25 mg (strip cut into 32 pieces) - 2 weeks
    0.125 mg - 2 weeks
    0.06 mg - 2 weeks
    0.03 mg - 2 weeks
    0.03 mg every other day - 1 week
    0.0 mg JUMP

    This is my current plan but I am considering jumping at 0.06 mg since I don't know if I can cut them any smaller. I will start taking the amino acids listed above at 0.06 mg since I only have enough for 2 months or so and don't want to take it all before I jump. I have some herbs to take to help with anxiety and sleep during this process (btw I am only going this route b/c I don't want to get another addition by taking benzos or other similar drugs). For sleep I take:

    Melatonin 3 mg (I like Natrol fast dissolve) before bed. Then I alternate between:

    Passion flower 2000-4000 mg
    Valerian root 500 mg
    5 htp 100 mg

    I alternate these 3 because they don't seem as effective when taken daily. I expect there to be some sleepless nights as I get lower but so far nothing major at all. I think taking it slow with the taper has helped in this regard. For stress/irritability I have found GABA 1000 mg 3 times per day helps & could easily be taken at night as well. Taurine 500 mg helps some to and helps with concentration at work.

    Anyway, I will update with more info later.

    Sbg
     
  4. Fox face

    Fox face Moderator

    How's the taper going Sbg? Check in when you get a chance.
     
  5. Sub-b-gone

    Sub-b-gone Member

    Thanks for asking Fox. Well I had to slow my taper down some the lower I got. In the beginning tapering was relatively easy with suboxone but at 0.25 mg it's a different game. I am still planning my taper the same except for slowing it down. At such a small daily dose it doesn't last all day anymore so I am relying some on these amino acids and other supplements. The dlpa and tyrosine definetly help give me some energy to get through the day and the glycine helps smooth (calm) those out a bit so I don't get so agitated. Also taking chelated magnesium/ calcium which surprisingly helps relax muscles.

    A couple new added supplements for calming nerves and sleep I have found are:

    Magnolia Bark - great for evening or sleep.

    Mother wort - this one helps me out very well in the evenings to relax after a day's work.

    Tryptophan - I take this for sleep some nights as well. If pared with 5 htp it knocks me out solid for the night.

    Anyway, I will keep posting as I go along and while I am going slower than planned I'm still heading towards the same goal, just may get there a little slower than I planned.
     
  6. subzero

    subzero Member

    It's only natural to try to make the withdrawal process as painless as possible. And it looks like you've done your homework Sub-b-gone. I had a degree in Medical Anthropology, did a lot of work around the world looking into herbs, studying with Curanderos, healers, etc. But when it came to getting off Subs it became clear very early on that my body was rejecting any form of medication, whether it be a pill, an herbal formula, a tea, whatever. I found that I preferred to be wired and stay up all night than feel the effects of any drug. I remember one night about a week into withdrawal I had this thought that I would even "miss" that pain, the RLS at night, the crazies, because I knew that what was going on, as weird as it felt, was a good thing. I was healing and and realized that I was kind of digging it all. I didn't end up missing that, but I haven't forgotten it either. There's something very rewarding about just getting through something like that. It's all part of the process.
     
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