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Suboxone change in behavior?

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Tired, Feb 5, 2004.

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  1. Tired

    Tired Guest

    For the last year, I have been off crack and have been on Zoloft 150mg a day for depression and was doing great-atleast from my family's point of view. They loved the new me. My kids and parents always knew when I was using. Two week ago I was feeling "rocky" and was afraid I would relapse. In addition to my Zoloft my dr. put me on Suboxone. I started with 2mg and worked up to 8mg. Almost from day one both my parents and kids started asking me if I was using again. They said my behavior, mood, speech everything was like when I was using. At that point no one knew but me that I had started taking this drug. I don't see any change in me at all except I am less "rocky".
    Has any one been told their behavior has changed?
     
  2. Crystal

    Crystal Well-Known Member

    Oh, yes...yes...yes!!!

    It most certainly does cause mood swings.
    I was one who couldn't swallow after the pill disolved under my tongue...it made me sick to my stomache, headachey andddddd MOODY!
    I wanted to sleep about a half an hour after I had done it.

    Once I started to simply spitt the spit out...(lol) I was fine.
    The meds. still worked for me that way(no withdrawls) but I didn't have the side effects as bad(about 90% better)

    So, hope I answered your question!

    Communicate,Validate and Appreciate!
     
  3. JoeyL

    JoeyL Member

    I experienced a lot of behavior change when I was on the sub. The biggest was very deep depression that was noticed by everyone. I had absolutely no energy and no interest in life at all. To top it off, I experienced continual nausea and anxiety. My dose was correct and I had no wds and no cravings for hydrocodone. I think sub has been a miracle drug for many, but I also think it's important to remember that it, like all drugs, has adverse effects. Sometimes those effects make it an unwise choice for a person experiencing them. I have been off of sub and back on hydro and tapering for two weeks. It took ten full days for me to stop feeling the depression, nausea, and anxiety. I'm not sure if this helps you or not, but I did want to share my experience.
     
  4. Tired

    Tired New Member

    I am still taking the Suboxone as it gives me just enough high that I don't have the cravings. But things remain "rocky" now with my parents and kids. They keep asking What is going on? I know as an adult I should be able to say "this is what I am on, period? But I know the reaction from my family. Years ago my dr. put me on methadone and my dad helped pay for it, several years later my dr. suggested I get on Oxicotin as a detox and maintance program again my dad helped me. After those two experiences my dad has sworn he would never help pay to put me on any opiod maintance program. Now he is saying he will cut me off unless I have a drug test to prove I am not taking anything. So I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I still don't see any change in me except I don't seem to focus as much getting things done like I was, but I have had periods like that before in my life. I am a grown adult and feel as if I have reverted back to a child-keeping secretes.
     
  5. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    Hi Tired....I've only been taking Suboxone for 6 days, so I guess I'm not the best person to give advice..Maybe you should try splitting your doses up - not take all 8 at once...I'm on 16mg right now and I'm going to change that starting today..I too am expieriencing the lethargy and moodiness....Good Luck to you and keep us posted....WElcome to the forum, by the way..I'm sure many more expierienced folks will come by with a friendly word/advice for ya soon....Take Care
     
  6. Zloi

    Zloi Well-Known Member

    Tired, there must be a lot you are leaving out of your posts, because, frankly, they make little sense to me. You never mention being a narcotics addict--only that you have been off crack for a while. So why would your doctor suddenly give you Suboxone? It's a drug for people actively addicted to narcotics* and, as far as I know, would have little or no influence on use of coke or non narcotics. Now if you had been addicted to narcs at one time but have been clean for awhile and suddenly afraid of relapsing, Sub still wouldn't be indicated. Ever heard of Revia? Generic name is Naltrexone--it's a pure blocker, so you wouldn't feel a narcotic even if you did relapse on one. All this is important because the drug (Sub) will have different effects depending on whether the user has an active tolerance to narcotics. If you are totally clean and sober and have been for awhile, gee, I just don't understand why you would start taking it. But in light of your past experiences, I assume you used to be a narcs user, although any doctor who put you on either methadone or Oxycontin (!) for "maintenance and detox" would have been breaking the law, if you live in the US, at least. So, if you are not a regular opiate user, who knows how Sub might affect you, but then, why take it at all? But if you really are a regular user and just "forgot" to mention that, then yeah, it might make you drowsy sometimes (it has for me). I haven't had any other side effects, though, certainly nothing even remotely characterizable as "high.". I am on 8-10 mg/day.
     
  7. inkslinger

    inkslinger Well-Known Member

    Zloi I am with you here. Sub will do nothing what so ever for Crack addictions OR amphetamines for that matter. ITs a different drug. Sub should nt be used the way you are using it. Ths is why you are getting groggy and tired..prolly have slurred speech often...

    Sub will also cause depression because it does have a sedative effect. Either way you should get off thw sub, its not the right thing and can be potentially dangerous for you. Good luck

    to each their own ...everyone deals with things different and everyones chemical make up is different
     
  8. Tired

    Tired New Member

    Sorry, I am also Bipolar. If I say in NA, I am Bipolar (everyone rolls their eyes and says-“she must be crazy”) if I say drug addict in my mental health group ( “she is just an addict”). Tough being both! I have used heroin, crack and every other drug to get out of depression or manic stages. But I have been clean for a year. My dr. is good-he works with both drug addiction and mental health issues. When my problem was more drug addiction he sent me to the local clinic to get Methadone and once to the pain clinic for Oxy. I finally told my parents about the Suboxone-they keep saying it might be fine for controlling my drug addiction but is causing havoc with my mental illness. I don’t know what to do-called my doctor emergency number and he wants me to stay on it until we meet again the end of the month. I have to move out but don’t know where I will go.
     
  9. rikaard

    rikaard Well-Known Member

    :)Hi Tired,

    If u have been CLEAN for a year, then I DONT see any reason why u need to take Suboxone/Bup etc even to help u abstain from drug taking as they all contain opiates.
    I u feel like u may relapse or have impulses to use then IMHO why not just take Nartrexone/Narlexone
    which is JUST an opiate blocker and has NO/ZERO opiates in them but will give you a phycological barrier to using opiates as U WOULDNT get any effect if u tried to use and would probally make u sick if u did.
    Using any drug esp Crack can lift u for a SHORT while but in the end its a VICIOUS CIRCLE as taking any drug only give u short term relief and only ADDS to Depression and makes things A LOT WORSE.
    When I was using Crack I used to get a lift for 15mins but I used to get Paranoid/anxious etc when I came down plus u start worrying about your heart.
    I know several people who have had heart problems form using cocaine/crack esp my ex-gf whos only 25 but probally has the heart of a 40+ year old, trust me its dangerous.
    I got a bit off track there but I think and this is just MY OPINION that u would b better off not using any drugs except maybe "blockers"
    IF u have been clean for SO LONG why take a step back.
    Anyway take care and good luck.....
     
  10. Bup4pain

    Bup4pain Well-Known Member

    I'm not a MD, but Suboxone is prescribed for opiate dependence/detox.

    Buprenex has been used "Off label" for depression, and using Sub would be an OFF LABEL usage as well. I don't know what you mean by "feeling rocky", but am sure it's not listed as a condition which is approved for bupe usage by the FDA LOL

    I would be concerned about using an addictive opiate for "feeling ROCKY". MANY here have used this drug for a few months and even a year or more and when getting OFF OF IT become depressed due to the withdrawal.

    Also the interacting between Bupe and some AD's may cause some interesting things I would think. (I recall it interferes with one class of AD's and how they work)

    In an opiate naive person bupe will cause opiate effects (mild euphoria, pain control, sleep etc.) This is short lived and is followed by dependence after a month or more.

    I personally think putting you on bupe is not the correct course of action. BUT again I'm not a MD.

    I just want you to know what you are getting into. And why is he working your dose UP? Is he planning on putting you on BMT?

    IMHO adding an opiate dependence will not simplify your life and MAY lead to more depression or other problems later on.

    (am I allowed to say this?)
     
  11. Crystal

    Crystal Well-Known Member

    LOL! Bup4pain, YES! your allowed to say that.....:)



    IMO...Tired, Keep in mind, DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO, TO STAY CLEAN.
    Sometimes our parents dont' always KNOW what's best for us.

    I agree with Bup, that this just might not be good FOR YOU.
    If you've been clean, perhaps you should look into something else.
    I know it helps with the 'cravings' you were having...but maybe you should try another alternative.

    *Also the interacting between Bupe and some AD's may cause some interesting things I would think. (I recall it interferes with one class of AD's and how they work)*

    I have to also agree with what bup said about the above quote.
    I was on Bup. for about a month and TRIED the antidepressants EFFEXOR.
    That and bup. mixed FOR ME, was not working.
    Tons have told me it worked for 'them' but for 'me' it didn't.
    Everyone is different.

    So...Tired, Your "Recovery" is very much at risk here with all your going thru. To be a "MOM" or just be "REAL" you need to keep it real.
    I think you did the "Best" thing to try and detour yourself from using....but maybe something else should be given a try.

    Good Luck to you!



    Communicate,Validate and Appreciate!
     
  12. Zloi

    Zloi Well-Known Member

    Hi again, Tired,
    I am not bipolar but have suffered from pretty serious depression over the years and so have gone to a few AA few groups that are "dual diagnosis"--check your area meeting book or call the local AA office, there could be some in your area, and I practically guarantee you'll feel more comfortable there than at "reg" 12-Step meetings (NA has fewer meetings overall and may not have such "specialty" subgroups. Even if alcohol isn't your primary drug of abuse, I find AA groups to be generally solider, with more sobriety and better vibes, than NA. It's a possibility.
    However, from the situation you have described, I would switch doctors asap. Your man doesn't seem to know his ass from his elbow if, as you state, you are not an active* narcotics addict. I know I am treading on somewhat tricky turf here, but my experience with MDs is, they don't know **** about drug addiction' unfortunately, even those who work regularly with addicts don't really have the same insights or understanding of our problems as, say, the people in this forum. Some docs are certainly better than others, some more compassionate, etc, but, as a gross generalization, you can't trust 'em to know what's best for you or even care. Shrinks seem to be the worst, but as a rule, docs seem to want just to write you a quick prescription, collect their office-visit fee, and move you on out for the next patient. Most became MDs to make money more than to help the sick and suffering, and quick turn-over is one key to doing it. Being bipolar, as well, I'm sure you have it even harder--docs wanting to prescribe anything and everything under the sun just to get you off their backs. In reality, as I'm sure you know, yours is an extremely challenging problem to treat. OF COURSE one is going to self-medicate, given the symptoms bipolars experience. However--and I assume you know this by now, as well--uppers (coke & amphetamines) are probably the WORST possible garbage you can take. Even normies go nuts trying to cope with the ups and downs of those drugs, so in your position (as in my own, too) I would go to any length to avoid using them. What you--what we ALL want--is something to stabilize us. Hopefully, we can eventually find this purely via non-drug means. I'm not sure bipolars will ever to be able to, though,just as I may have to take anti-depressants the rest of my life. At any rate, there comes a point when just feeling normal overrides the urge to get high. For me, personally, methadone is a drug which has been a great stabilizer for me in the past. Despite its many drawbacks, I remain impressed by its ability to iron out the ups and downs of narcotics addiction. Now I have moved on to Suboxone. Been on it for less than a month, but I am finding it has many of methadone's pluses--reduction of cravings, once a day (or every two days) dosing, mental and emotional clarity--with fewer side effects. However, to repeat yet again, it does NOT sound like the drug for you. It IS addictive, and this is such a huge drawback that I can't figure why anyone would want to get on it voluntarily. I am taking it "temporarily" only because I feel I must, ie, benefits outweigh drawbacks. Your family doesn't know anything about it, so discard their opinions. Your doc doesn't seem to either--I seriously recommend a second opinion or three. If you are worried about using narcotics or alcohol, get someone to prescribe you Naltrexone. It's expensive ($5 a pill, I think) but give it a shot if you can afford it. And check back with us--often. At the risk of sounding pert, I think we (your user-peer-group) may offer you better advice than a whole fish-barrel of med-school grads. More importantly, we are your friends and we sincerely care about you, as well as everyone else who suffers from our disease. Together we can do what individually we never could. Best of luck, Tired!
     
  13. Tired

    Tired New Member

    You are right my parents don't know anything. I want to move out. If they would just buy me a place of my own, they helped my two sisters but now say they can't help me it is s***. My dad says he can't even talk to me any more well no s***. He had the nerve to call my therapist at her home last night to beg her to talk to my dr. I told him to stay out of my business- like that will ever happen. God I have to get out of here
     
  14. spring

    spring Administrator

    Tired, Curious, how old are you?

    Am I understanding this correctly? Your doc put you on Suboxone as a preventative against relapse?! From the way you describe your actions, it sounds to me like you are opiate naive, meaning your brain isn't accustomed to being opiated. You say you've been clean for a year so it's no wonder you act like you are high and using again. It's because you are! Suboxone IS an opiate.

    Is this the same doc who sent you to a pain clinic to be put on Oxycontin? You say he put you on oxys for a detox and maintainance program to treat your addiction. Which was it, detox or maintainance?

    None of this is making any sense to me. I would take the advice of the others and see a different doc.

    ~~~Do the right thing and risk the consequences~~~Spring~~~
     
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