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Started Subutex Tues 12/2

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by cgdg, Dec 30, 2003.

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  1. cgdg

    cgdg Guest

    Drug of choice: Oxycontin

    Usage per day: 160-200mg

    Method of use: "snooooooorrrrrrt"

    Length of use: 2 yrs

    Initial reaction to Subutex: Massive headache, nausea, vomitus-chuck-bucketus for 12 hours....after that, it was a marriage made in heaven (the stuff works!).

    Other interests: long walks on the beach, curling up w/a good book and my dog "Pepe," making small children cry, pretty "frilly" things, stealing from the elderly.:D

    My daily intake since I started:
    Day 1: 16mg.... 8/4/4 - Subutex 8mg tabs
    Day 2: 20mg....8/8/4
    Day 3: 16mg....8/8
    Day 4: 12mg....8/4
    Day 5: 10mg....8/2
    Day 6: 4mg.....afternoon
    Day 7: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 8: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 9: 5mg ........3/2 split* (*means morning/afternoon dose)
    Day 10: 2mg .......1/1 split - switched to Suboxone 2mg tabs
    Day 11: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 12: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 13: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 14: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 15: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 16: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 17: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 18: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 19: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 20: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 21: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 22: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 23: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 24: .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 25: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 26 .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 27 .5mg.... .5mg morning dose only


    The drop to .5mg was the most uncomfortable I've been since the first day...in hindsight, I probably should've split the dose. I also *just* stabilized at .75mg, and normally STAY at the 'stabilized level' for 3 days before dropping again, but wanted to make up for the "hold" I did thru Christmas.

    Heart racing and lethargy after dinner...nice combo if you're a MASOCHIST. [:eek:)] Finally fell asleep 2am after taking 15mg Valium and watching "Judge Judy" for 2 hours...don't know which helped more:D... tossed all night before taking about .25mg Suboxone at 6am this morning.

    Ahhhh....when you're feeling bad, just feeling *normal* again is almost as good as being high...............almost.

    Department of redundancy department...EXERCISE is extremely important while tapering the Sub... I can feel the heart rate pickup mid-afternoon, so I hit the weights HARD which increases it further, but can easily relax thereafter. Natural endorphins!

    All systems still "go."
     
  2. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    How bad is the withdraw from Sub from say 4mg? Like on a withdraw scale of 1 to 10? 1 being tolarable and ten being like something from trainspotting? Hopefully someone will know.
     
  3. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    Hey Sunshine...
    WD from 4mg, huh? I would imagine it's fairly intense.... you'd be better served to taper down to as little as possible before walking off.

    IMO, being as comfortable as possible is important...don't want those 'cravings' back.

    I considered stopping at 4mg, but started feeling lousy enuff to continue the taper...and it surprised me last nite when I started feeling like somebody was tap-dancing on my chest after dropping fairly quickley from 1mg to .5mg.

    Everybody's tolerance is different though...so YMMV.

    *oh...and on a scale from 1-10...I'm gonna say (for me) a 4-5....but that would be based on about 21 days of use....the shorter, the easier...long-term users have difficulty... Bupe4pain has made me VERY aware of this and has been a HUGE help.
     
  4. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    The withdrawal from Sub does worry me but it is worth it to be free. I have heard mixed opinions about it. Good luck cgdg with your final desent. You are doing great!
     
  5. Apheana

    Apheana Well-Known Member

    You are a funny person!!!!!:D:D:D
    I seem to be stuck at 2mg. I can't seem to break them into smaller pieces, they crumble. I have however started to crumble it before putting it in my mouth so it disolves faster. I think it tastes yucky...I can relate to the 12 hour filling buckets when I first started on it...eeeeeww....but now, it works great and feeling normal is almost as good as being high. But I am going to concentrate on smaller doses...



    ***Live, Laugh and Love***
     
  6. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    "Tastes yucky..." sounds like yer still on the Subutex. The "crumble factor" of these pills has become a real pain-in-the-arse to me as well.

    Can you get yer doc to switch you to 2mg Suboxone tabs? Not only is it easier to get yer dose right (especially if you're on 2mg now), but it's ORANGE FLAVOR! Taste just like Flinstone(d) multiple vitamins...:D

    Subutex tip:
    I've found that because these pills break uneven and crumble, that my skills w/a single edge razor blade (which I honed brilliantly due to my excessive LOVE for Oxycontin) makes for a more precise dose.

    You will, however, end up w/little piles of Subutex/Suboxone powder...tempting if you enjoy SNORTING...but unwise.[xx(]
     
  7. Apheana

    Apheana Well-Known Member

    I am on Saboxone, and they taste yucky to me. I dont care for the nice citrus flavor...2 months on it the 3ed of January. The first time I was on it for 3 days but relapsed...I liked to snort the oxi;s myself and I also had a nice supply of oxycodone to wash them down. Those were the days...

    ***Live, Laugh and Love***
     
  8. Apheana

    Apheana Well-Known Member

    I have to know cause I have been tempted, does it burn? Did ya snort em at all?

    ***Live, Laugh and Love***
     
  9. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    Snortin' them oxys is what got me into trouble in the first place. Most recently is has been H that I have had trouble with.
     
  10. Bup4pain

    Bup4pain Well-Known Member

    [:eek:)] Snorting your meds [:eek:)] You crack me up! LOL

    I was going to suggest the crushing and dividing method with a razor blade or some such when the dose gets low. Works WONDERFUL for the little bit needed. One pill will last quite a while.

    I guess snorting would work, but the difference in absorption rate would mess up your taper. Also the taste may make you WISH you did not! [xx(] As it would LAST and LAST and LAST .... yech

    I thinking dosing at 12 noon was a good thing as I am not anywhere near being at w/d level and it's almost 4 pm. I will take the balance of my 30 mg at 7 or 8 pm. I want to stick to 30 mg for 3 days, then cut 7.5 mg hold for 3 days then cut 7.5 mg again.

    60 mg morphine oral is = to about 10 mg of Oxy so I'm at the lower end of the taper.

    I feel much better as my 24 hr bug is over. Just starting to eat again.

    Living on yogurt and soda for 2 days. [:I]
     
  11. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    Bup you poor thing. The flu bug that is going around is a bad one. I do not think I would snort the sub pills because I can hardly stand the taste in my mouth let alone up my nose. The razor blade trick sounds like it would work. MY question is this will a little slice of a 2mg sub pill work if you are tapering sub?
     
  12. Bup4pain

    Bup4pain Well-Known Member

    Sunshine... not sure it was the flu, but something fever for 6 hrs .. then cramps for 2 days with runs. You know the drill.

    YES a sliver of Sub/Bup works. So little does so much! It's absolutely amazing. I could be feeling like crap and take 0.1 mg IM (1 mg Sublingual) and BAM I'd feel perfect! The dose would last a while too. Over 6 hrs.

    The more you take the more you HAVE to take. When I was on 4 Amps of .3 mg IM I needed them one 4 times a day. I would get lean easy.

    As I tapered it was easy to go to 2x a day.

    Look at cgdg's posts
     
  13. pinkie

    pinkie Well-Known Member

    As fer me, on a scale of 1-10 stepping off after 2(ish) weeks at 2mg, compared to cold, I would rate it a 2-3. Often people talk about detox being like the flu. Cold turkey for me was nothing like the flu, rather a truly excrutiating experience. So coming off Suboxone really did feel more like the flu, lethargy, moody, slight stomach crampling (very slight). Don't be afraid of trying, all-in-all, when taken correctly, it can really work like magic.

    When I'm back up and running myself, I will post my story again, but until then I just want to reiterate...
    I have yet to hear of anyone who comes off Bup completely symptom free. While it is a godsend, and can make detox managable, there is a (small?) price to pay when stepping off completely. Sounds like the price varies per the individual, but it is not free. For me, it was a relatively small price, and although uncomfortable, I managed to stay up and running pretty much the whole detox.

    Two things I feel compelled to add... first, I think attitude helps. If you can reframe the symptoms in your mind (for example, psych yourself into thinking it's just the flu), it is possible to minimize your symptoms.

    And second, CRAVINGS WILL COME. This is no panacea, so if you're looking for something to stop the cravings, my advice is a gun or maintenance. Bup only quells the cravings while you're on it. The minute you step off, BOFFO! Personally, I had about a week or so when the cravings weren't very bad, then they came on with a vengence. Have a plan. You'll need it.
     
  14. Jon

    Jon Well-Known Member

    Pinkie,
    When you have time and feel in the mood I would really like to hear your detailed story. It helped me and I feel sure it would others.
    Thank you,
    Jon
    PS only this last week to go. Please cheer me on.
    it helps
     
  15. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    My daily intake since I started:
    Day 1: 16mg.... 8/4/4 - Subutex 8mg tabs
    Day 2: 20mg....8/8/4
    Day 3: 16mg....8/8
    Day 4: 12mg....8/4
    Day 5: 10mg....8/2
    Day 6: 4mg.....afternoon
    Day 7: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 8: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 9: 5mg ........3/2 split* (*means morning/afternoon dose)
    Day 10: 2mg .......1/1 split - switched to Suboxone 2mg tabs
    Day 11: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 12: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 13: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 14: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 15: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 16: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 17: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 18: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 19: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 20: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 21: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 22: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 23: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 24: .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 25: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 26 .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 27 .5mg.... .5mg morning dose only
    Day 28 .65mg... .4/.25

    Getting difficult to judge precise dosage here...started the day with a 'small' 1/4 pill Suboxone, so it was less than .5mg, and held me fine. Took another 1/8 pill at 5pm...feeling good again.

    Using the blade to cut & shave the pieces is working well. I'm like a master chef w/a razor blade.... was a true "Super Hero" Oxycontin user...could lay out a line in a matter of mere SECONDS under the most strenuous of conditions.

    If only my expertise could be put to good use...rather than evil. :D

    No depression, and the only time I was lethargic was the evening of day 27...I've heard "EXPECT IT!" so freakin' much, I'm kinda just *waiting* for that other shoe to drop...gotta keep a POSITIVE outlook so "head games" don't come into play.

    Hopefully the Paxil doc has me on will help....
     
  16. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    Apheana...

    Nah, I didn't snort it. Was I tempted? Sure...back-in-the-day I'd snort whatever anyone put in front of me. Thank god it didn't affect any of my brain functions.

    Nah, I didn't snort it. Was I tempted? Sure...back-in-the-day I'd snort whatever anyone put in front of me. Thank god it didn't affect any of my brain functions.

    :D[:p]
     
  17. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    My daily intake since I started:
    Day 1: 16mg.... 8/4/4 - Subutex 8mg tabs
    Day 2: 20mg....8/8/4
    Day 3: 16mg....8/8
    Day 4: 12mg....8/4
    Day 5: 10mg....8/2
    Day 6: 4mg.....afternoon
    Day 7: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 8: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 9: 5mg ........3/2 split* (*means morning/afternoon dose)
    Day 10: 2mg .......1/1 split - switched to Suboxone 2mg tabs
    Day 11: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 12: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 13: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 14: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 15: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 16: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 17: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 18: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 19: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 20: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 21: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 22: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 23: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 24: .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 25: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 26 .75mg..... .5/.25 split
    Day 27 .5mg...... .5mg morning dose only
    Day 28 .65mg..... .4/.25
    Day 29 .75mg..... .5/.25

    Inch-by-inch. Still painless...cannot say enuff good things about the Sub; amazing stuff.

    If you have it, use Valium sparingly while on Sub...I've found it helped on the days I've dropped...taken before bed to aid sleep. If you use it during the day, it can & will cause lethargy and depression..."and the answer IS! 'DING!' ---Things you want to AVOID while detoxing from opiates!":D

    **Apologies for repeating this, but...DON'T just sit around! Keep busy and try to EXERCISE...doing this BEFORE you walk off the Sub is IMPORTANT! Develop a routine and good habits asap...it makes the taper easier, and should help immensely when you stop.
     
  18. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    My daily intake since I started:
    Day 1: 16mg.... 8/4/4 - Subutex 8mg tabs
    Day 2: 20mg....8/8/4
    Day 3: 16mg....8/8
    Day 4: 12mg....8/4
    Day 5: 10mg....8/2
    Day 6: 4mg.....afternoon
    Day 7: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 8: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 9: 5mg ........3/2 split* (*means morning/aft dose)
    Day 10: 2mg .......1/1 split - switched to Suboxone 2mg tabs
    Day 11: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 12: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 13: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 14: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 15: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 16: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 17: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 18: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 19: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 20: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 21: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 22: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 23: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 24: .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 25: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 26 .75mg..... .5/.25 split
    Day 27 .5mg...... .5mg morning dose only
    Day 28 .65mg..... .4/.25 split
    Day 29 .75mg..... .5/.25 split
    Day 30 .5mg...... .25/.25 split

    No cravings, lethargy, depression or WD symptoms...finish-line is in sight.
     
  19. Rodrigo

    Rodrigo Well-Known Member

    I have no personal experience with bupe, but it sounds to me like the feeling is quite close to w/d's from SSRIS like Paxil, etc. That feeling is quite unexplainable. The best way I can describe it is hard mood swings between happiness and depression, and feeling like your brain is being electrically charged and you're going to fall over like "zap zap crash". It's weird. When I stopped taking the Paxil, I took small doses of ephedrine and drank 2-3 Red Bulls per day. Be careful, though, because ephedrine is definitely not for everyone and people *have* died from taking it. Do *not* take ephedrine if you have high blood pressure, heart problems, glaucoma, or if you're on certain anti-d's classified as MAOIs (mono amine oxidase inhibitors). Consult rxlist.com and look-up ephedrine for more information. There are alternatives to ephedrine that can help also... These are any of the plants that provide caffeine (Kola Nut, Guarana, etc.). The "replacement" for ephedrine in the new "ephedrine-free" energy supplements is called "citrus auratainium(sp)", or more commonly called "bitter orange", which supplies another CNS stimulant called synepherine. Supposedly, this is much safer than ephedrine, but I'm not quite sure if I believe it (yet).
     
  20. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    My daily intake since I started:
    Day 1: 16mg.... 8/4/4 - Subutex 8mg tabs
    Day 2: 20mg....8/8/4
    Day 3: 16mg....8/8
    Day 4: 12mg....8/4
    Day 5: 10mg....8/2
    Day 6: 4mg.....afternoon
    Day 7: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 8: 3mg.....afternoon
    Day 9: 5mg ........3/2 split* (*means morning/aft dose)
    Day 10: 2mg .......1/1 split - switched to Suboxone 2mg tabs
    Day 11: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 12: 2mg .......1/1 split
    Day 13: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 14: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 15: 1.5mg .....1/.5 split
    Day 16: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 17: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 18: 1.25mg... .75/.5 split
    Day 19: 1mg...... .75/.25 split
    Day 20: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 21: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 22: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 23: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 24: .75mg.... .5/.25 split
    Day 25: 1mg...... .5/.5 split
    Day 26 .75mg..... .5/.25 split
    Day 27 .5mg...... .5mg morning dose only
    Day 28 .65mg..... .4/.25 split
    Day 29 .75mg..... .5/.25 split
    Day 30 .5mg...... .25/.25 split
    Day 31 .5mg...... .25/.25 split

    Still no problems...feel as good at 1/2mg as I did at 4mg...but the best is yet-to-come (stopping). :D
     
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