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Question...Pls help....Sub pills not dissolving

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Marge, Feb 15, 2004.

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  1. Marge

    Marge Guest

    Hello there,

    I have just read many posts for the first time and am so glad to know these forums exist, as I feel it is so hard to get help these days, when you actually want it. My boyfriend is trying to stop his heroin use. He has been on Methadone twice in the past 6 months and has used both times when getting real low. He wants to stop, but i feel like whatever he tries to do to get his life in order, nothing works for him.

    Can anyone tell me if getting Suboxone from a doctor is an option for someone on heroin that wants to get off- I know I read in the other posts many people on methadone switch to suboxone, but can this be done directly from heroin to suboxone or do you have to go through detox first? Any knowledge would help. Thanks, Marge
  2. diavolo7

    diavolo7 Well-Known Member

    Hi Marge,

    Absolutely you can go from H to suboxone. I did it.

    He needs to find a doctor to prescribe it (look further on the site, under the 'FAQ~LINKS~DATA~FACTS' section, and then the 'Bupe FAQ' thread, there is a webpage that will link you to doctors in your area), and then he needs to wait until he is in withdrawal from the H. Preferably 18 - 24 hours. At this point, the transition is pretty painless. If he takes the suboxone too soon after his last dosage of H, it may cause acute w/d symptoms.

    Good luck!
  3. Marge

    Marge Member

    Just wanted to send an update to my original post- I found a doctor to prescribe Suboxone to my boyfriend luckily a few days after I called him, which made us extremely happy, but I have to ask everyone if they have ever heard of this scenario b/c the doctor hasn't:

    The suboxone pills (8 mg and 2 mg) are disolving in 2 minutes and could not get into my boyfrined's system. The doctor kept trying over and over again, also putting tons of cotton in his mouth, and that started to help a little after being in the office from 11-4pm.

    Anyone have this experience?
  4. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    Hi Marge, welcome to the forum.....Soooo happy you guys found a doctor....As far as the pills disolving sooo quickly....I've not heard of that problem before....Maybe if he tries to take them like first thing in the morning before he's had anything to drink would help....That's a very uneducated opinion....I've found the dryer my mouth is the longer the pills take to disolve...Good Luck and keep us posted....

    I'm sure someone will come along with some better advice and/or who had experienced the same thing......
  5. Marge

    Marge Member

    Thanks Jessie for replying, and about your uneducated opinion, not so uneducated!! actually you were right so thanks-

    the pill this morning for him right when he woke up dissolved in 9 minutes- today at 5 pm, it dissolved in less than 2 minutes.

    Anyone else out there know what to do to get the PM pill to take 10 minutes to dissolve when you have lots of saliva?
  6. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

    I don't understand what the problem is!I just started Subutex 5 days ago-I hate the 8mg pills cos they take 5 min to dissolve which I thought was ages-why do you want them to take longer?If its because they dont get into your system otherwise,maybe that'd explain why I've been so damn ill throughout my detox!!

    LOL Loop
  7. spring

    spring Administrator

    Marge, I dont understand your problem. It doesnt matter how long it takes the pill to dissolve.

    What DOES matter is how long you hold your saliva in your mouth before you swallow or spit it out.

    There's no reason why it wouldnt get into his system if he holds it and allows it time to absorb. Actually the longer the better up to 10 minutes if he can.

    I have found that some days my mouth is dryer than others. What seems to help is to change the postio of the pill under my tongue, like move it to the other side. It helps me. One side it dissolves more slowly than the other. Maybe more salivary glands on one side or something...

    ~~~Do the right thing and risk the consequences~~~Spring~~~
  8. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    well pooh, 10 min???? Guess *I* am doing this wrong too....this may be why the last few days I've been craving..Haven't had ANY cravings, just thought this was natural...After I first read this topic, I timed how long it takes for mine to dissolve..Maybe 5 min TOPS...(I split my 16mg up into 4 doses)....Also the past few days I been sleepy, lethargic.....LMAO...Guess we do learn something new everyday....These dang dr's need to be MORE specific on EXACTLY how to take this stuff....:(.....I really hadn't paid attention before, but looking back, the first few weeks it did take longer for the pill to dissolve, I was usually too busy to really pay attention...hmmmmm....Interesting subject...So happy that it was brought up...

    Ohh, poor Loop.....Hang in there....It'll get better....I thought 5 min was forever as well.....LMAO.....We'll all get it right eventually....:)
  9. Marge

    Marge Member

    The only reason why I am saying that I think it may matter how long the Sub pill takes to dissolve is b/c the very first day my boyfriend went to the doctor, which was 11 am on Thursday- the doctor gave him his first pill at 11:45 am (17 hours after his last use) and the pill dissolved in less than 2 minutes- tried again, same thing. Was given an 8mg pill at 1 pm b/c the other two pills did nothing. Waited till 2 pm, no effect. Took another 8 mg pill- waited till 3 pm no effect- Finally at 3 pm took another pill with tons of cotton in his mouth- this took about 5 minutes to dissolve. At 4 pm we left, my boyfriend was still having the same withdrawal symptoms he usually gets, didn't feel anything- was very agitated and wanted to go and use.

    The doctor was very surprised, b/c this scenerio he hasn't seen in any of his 600 patients before (so I want to make it clear that everyone can be different, maybe dissolving in a couple of minutes works for others, but i wanted to let others know this situation too) The doctor said the effects will not be the same if you do not let the pill dissolve under your tongue for 15 minutes, and holding your saliva for that long and then swallowing won't do the job(his other patients wished the pill would dissolve in 15 min as it took longer for others!) In the four hours time we were there, the sub pills did not work b/c of the short time dissolving. The cotton helped a little bit...

    We had to go back to see the doctor at 6pm that night and was given a buprenorphine shot. That was the only way we could get my boyfriend to become comfortable as far as with his withdrawal symptoms.

    Now he is taking the Sub pills in the morning, which has been successful as far as taking 10 minutes to dissolve b/c his mouth is dry just after waking up. He feels ok. Jessie, he is also very sleepy, lethargic, and doesn't want to speak much.

    I'm just hoping each day will get a little better for everyone...
  10. spring

    spring Administrator

    I'm still not sure I get it. After the pill dissolved in two minutes, what then? Did he swallow right away or not?

    Well,if he swallowed right away, or even if he spit for that matter, immediately after the pill was dissolved then it didnt have time to be absorbed into his system, not in that short of time. The bup is still IN HIS SALIVA after that short time.
    That would make sense why his first 2 didnt work for him, wasn't in there long enough.
    I wonder why the doc didn't tell him to hold his saliva in his mouth longer after the pills dissolved so quickly?

    Gheeez, If I'm figuring it correctly, he had 48 mgs of Suboxone all in his first 4 hours. It's no wonder he was feeling bad. The more you take, the worse it makes you feel as far as W/D symptoms.
    My initial dose of 2mgs took my W/D symptoms away within one hour and held me for 24 hours(heroin dtox).
    Didnt the doc know that it takes some time for the bup to start working? Apparently not.
    Sorry, I know everybody is different. This case just sounds so strange tho, had to comment.

    ~~~Do the right thing and risk the consequences~~~Spring~~~
  11. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    Hi Marge...Glad to hear that something helped...Yeah, the first few days I was on the Suboxone I had to take 24mg , felt like doodie (lol). I layed in bed most of the time...But just keep assuring him that IT DOES GET BETTER....Actually everyday gets better and better...I promise...Read around and you'll see that most everyone will say that each day is a bit better when on the Sub....Heck, I've had some **Good** days :D

    K...I just took 4mg of Sub, held all the saliva for 10 min.....Gonna see if this makes any difference...LOL...:)....
  12. doc

    doc Member

    Hi Spring,

    sometimes the sublingual glands are very active and wash away the sub tablets. you can hold saliva till you turn purple and it won't work (too much washout with actively secreting glands). as far as dosage is concerned, as long as you are confident that the sub is absorbing only minimally you are free to add more without waiting 90 mins. between doses.

    the key point is that IM buprenex worked. so we know it's an absorption problem, not something metabolic.

    a clonidine patch will help dry the mouth a bit and can help the tabs absorb more slowly. this "hold onto your saliva" technique is at best, minimally effective- basically it beats being swallowed, but ain't as good as slow absorption under the tongue into the sublingual blood vessels.

    God Bless,
  13. Marge

    Marge Member

    thanks doc...that's exactly what I was trying to let everyone know!
  14. Jessie

    Jessie Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm glad that was cleared up...I have a LOT of information to discuss with my Doctor on the next visit...He intialy told me to hold the saliva in my mouth and then swallow it "so I would get the full effect"...Now I'm wondering if my pill may have dissolved too quickly and that's why I needed a second 8 mg pill that day...Oh well, guess it's not best to dwell on the past, just to do the best I can with what I know now....
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