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Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by wdartmore, Jan 11, 2004.

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  1. wdartmore

    wdartmore Guest

    I've been off the suboxone for a week now. Serious fatigue, some sleeping issues and a general sense of feeling crappy. But really it's trivial compared to any other withdrawal.

    The fatigue got so bad my HIV Dr. prescribed some ritalin. It doesn't do much, but it does make the day go by faster. None of that looking at the clock, 9:01, 9:02, 9:03, 9:12 etc etc.

    Anyone can do this. Anyone. My final solution was to just run out and not have even the 1/10 pieces around. The first two days were kind of uncomfortable but I shoveled the clonodine and a few valiums down at night, and a couple ritalins in the day.

    The past few days I've been cutting all that way back and today I've taken 1 clonodine. I'll take another tonight because you can't just abruptly cut that off.

    Anyway this is confirmation that it can be done. It's not a free lunch but it's as free as it gets with subutex/suboxone. I'd definitely suggest the first few days on subutex, the switch to suboxone. It's easier to cut suboxone.

  2. spring

    spring Administrator

    Wonderful news Walt!! About being off the Sub for a week that is, not the fatigue..

    Would GREATLY appreciate a post giving me the rundown of your taper off the Sub.
  3. joberri

    joberri Active Member

    8 days of bup(only subutex in oz) feeling good!! Tapered VERY slowly over 3 months off 12mg, sat on 1mg (which was only holding me for about 20hrs), then jumped. I was on the stuff for 2yrs and seriosly the detox is very do-able!

  4. wdartmore

    wdartmore Well-Known Member

    Hey Spring,

    I was crushed to see my log got lost. I wanted to have each entry for myself after I was done. But that's the way life works.

    When I started my plan was to be done as fast as I could. They said 8 weeks I thought 3. I was able to cut quite fast the first few weeks. 12 to 8 to 4 to 2 every 4 days with almost zero stress.

    The best program I found was this.

    Set the dose for the day (whatever it was 12mg, 8mg, 4mg 2mg) and as soon as I wake up to walk my dogs (around 6am) take that dose. Sleep for another 2 hours and I'd wake up feeling fine. Great, ready for the day. Have a busy day, come home tired and I had to relearn that feeling tired does not mean take another pill. Being tired after a long day is normal, and you go to bed. About every 4 days I'd cut the dose. At first I'd cut a lot. from 12mg went to 8 for 8 to 4 from 4 to 2. I stalled at 2 for a while and got to one by toughing out about 50 hours then 1mg (half a pill) felt like a lot.

    I stalled at 1mg for a while but finally just went to .5mg and pushed for 4 days. This was the first point of real effort. But after 2 days I settled into the same feeling fine routine.

    At this point I cut to 1/8 (.25mg but really less because at that small size the pill gets all crumbly) and again forced myself to go 4 days. A few times I would end up taking a full 1/4 when I just needed a rest but for the most part got stalled on 1/8. At that point my blod pressure started going mental. Not just high but all of a sudden it would skyrocket and I'd get anxious. At first I'd take more which solved the problem but of course held me in limbo. So I started taking some valium when I'd feel my heart hammering and temples just pounding.

    I made 2 attempts to quit before succeeding. I'd go 2, maybe 2.5 days and then cave because I was thinking it would keep getting worse. Mental bull****. So finally while showing my HIV doc the teeeny little crumb I was taking got a reality check when he laughed in my face and said hey there is no place left for you to go but to zero.

    I realized as long as I had a pill to cut up into 1/8th I'd keep doing it so I just let myself run out. My suboxone dr was very patient he was more than willing to keep giving me 4 2mg pills every 3 weeks but that wasn't my goal. So I told my HIV doc I'd was going to run out on the 2nd of January and would he babysit me if I had any problems. He's so great he basically said 'the doctor at FLA Detox has taken you as far as he has to I'll get you over the hump' And he did. I had some questions and when I'd call he'd either take the phone call then or call me back within 10 minutes. So he was a great support.

    He gave me some ritalin to get me functional but it didn't give me any energy really. Helped time to pass normally but that's about it. Otherwise I just didn't have any left, did ask for any kept myself busy playing Xbox, sleeping when I could, lots of baths, clonodine, valium if necessary and each day went by. I'm totally spent, but I haven't been living in hell. You can do it. Don't think you can't. I was so afraid of detox since I did a cold turkey off 180mg of Oxycontin. Once I made the commitment and just let myself run out. I found out that it never gets worse and worse and worse and worse. You just kind of drag (I'm still dragging) but nothing worse than a lot of fatigue, and waking up sometimes and not being able to sleep.

    Each person is different but in the end it happened when I just decided to do it and not look back.

    I can not stress enough the benefits of clonodine. Make sure you have 100 or more. Take 3 or 4 a day starting a couple days before you cut. you'll be even more tired but no crazyness and no restless legs, and no mental anguish. Just good old fatigue and being dizzy if you stand up to fast.

    You can do it. Try this. Break off 1/4 of the 8mg pill so you are on 6mg. I bet you find it's pretty easy. Do that for 5 days then just take half the pill. the first 2 days are the toughest and after than your body ju
  5. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    Spring, I got a little sense that you are feeling blue about still being on sub? Please do not becasue you seem like you are doing very well. You have to look at all you have done in seven months instead of thinking wow I am still on Sub after seven months. Could you have acomplished so many goals without it? I know cause I have reading your post for sometime and they have been inspiring to me. I have almost one month clean time, except for the sub, and a great deal of that has to do with reading this forum and reading about your success. Anyway, good luck with your taper and please post how you are doing with it.
  6. spring

    spring Administrator

    Wow!! Thank you Sunshine! Your post really touched me.

    Until now I didn't know that I was that much of an inspiration to someone. YOU have inspired ME to look at my present situation with gratitde.

    I'm not planning on weaning off anytime soon. I am looking towards late spring or summer to start.

    I'm glad that I could help you in your journey. One month is quite an achievment, Sub or no Sub! Because either way it takes determination to go thru with it. Please keep me updated on your progress also.

    ~~~Do the right thing and risk the consequences~~~Spring~~~
  7. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    I just wanted you to know what I have been thinking about for a while now. You know how sometimes you think things but you do not verbalize it? I am trying to say more affirming things to the folks in my life, and even if this is the internet, everyone on the board is a part of my life. Go slow with a taper and you will do great. I am going to do the same but I am so new to recovery I do not want to do anything that could set me back to that deep hole where I was! Thanks Spring!
  8. SlipMan

    SlipMan Well-Known Member

    SPRING--It's late and I can't sleep (O feel good, I"m just wide awake) so I thought I'd give you a run down of my experience getting off BUP. It's a little different than most who do it on the first shot.

    Well, I sarted on BUP at the end of October. I was on it for about 3 weeks.
    Day 1 and 2 4mg 3 times a day
    Day 3-7 4mG 2 times a day
    Day 7-11 1 in the morning....

    Eventually I got down to taking 2mg a day and then stopped.
    Well, I stopped the BUP the first time the beginning of Thanksgiving week. I had two dinners to go to, and it was my girlfriend's birthday so my week was even more crazy than your typical holiday week. The first day after stoppping was ok, but the next two days I was bed ridden. That Sunday, I basically panicked because I thought there is no way I can be like this and be able to make it through the holidays. I was very fatigued and lathargic and somewhat depressed.....BUT way better than any other type of detox I may have tried. So, anyway I lost it and used again that Sunday night (80mg Oxy). I thought, just tonight and tomorrow and then I'll stop. Well, you know that story. MY 1 day romp turned into a 2 week roll.

    So, After two weeks, I called my doctor and told him I relapsed. He was really cool about it. He got me back on Suboxone right away.

    I basically did the same pattern except at the end I stretched out my 2 mg in the morning from 3 days to seven. I also wanted to make it through New Years not feeling run down.

    I took my last suboxone a week ago today (Tuesday). Pretty much the same thing as far as symptoms are concerned. Here's a break down of each day up till today:
    Day1 Still felt OK, took my last the night before so it was still in my system

    DAY2 Didn't get out of bed. Extreme lethargy, fatigue, weak, legs (slight) and some anxiety----no sleep that night

    DAY3 Same as day 2 but a little better---dairrea sets in

    Day4 Feeling a lttle better, more strength, got up for awhile but went back in bed, felt more comfy there, restlessness is annoying but not horriible (ie legs), also no appetite

    Day 5 woke up feeling good, tired in few hours, watched football. Took WELLBUTRIN that afternoon and felt more energy wthin a few hours, still a little lethargic, anxiety seems to be more prominent now but not really bad, just annoying, cravings are obviously driving me nuts too----Doctor prescribed me Ambien by the way the night before and I finally slet about 7 hours only waking up once--This I think was key in me feeling better

    DAY 6 Woke up feeling really good. Did some chores around the house. Towards afternoon, anxiety got worse and worse. Stomach also still bad. So, I went to store and got Immodium. Did the trick. Still, anxiety though and restless ness. About 9PM I took an Ambien, not supposed to but I noticed that it really helped the anxiety before going to bed....almost made me giddy. Took another one about 4 hours later and now here I am up at 4:30 in the AM......weird huh? I feel good though.

    So SPRING....there it is. I forgot to mention that I've been taking clonodine every day too. Anywhere from 3-5 pills. I do not like this stuff. It makes you into a Zombie, which is ok for the first few days but after that it is Depressing. This stuff makes me dizzy and dopey BUT it does help with reslessness. BUt if you can get something else I would try it. Plus messing with your Blood pressure is scary IMO.

    Anyway, I'm into DAY7 and feeling better and better every minute. I hop a week from now I'll be 100% (NO W/D symptoms at all).

    I hope this was helpful to you and anyone else who took the two hours to read this lon ass post. Later dogs!
  9. SlipMan

    SlipMan Well-Known Member

    WALT---Our situations sound alot alike..COngrats on your success. I am on day seven. Jan 13th...so I think were on the same schedule. I forgot to mention how importnat HOT showers have been......very relaxing. Keep posting dog.
  10. sunshine

    sunshine Well-Known Member

    Once my husband was at a really crappy 5 day detox while I sweated it out at home cold turkey from the H bomb and when I picked him up he was so dopey and out of it. He kept saying that they didn't give him any drugs but that he had a patch. It was a clonidine patch and later he admitted that they were giving him Libruim and valium. No wonder he was such a mess. Big difference between my cold turkey 5 days and his medicated. I was feeling much better than him. Of course the next day we copped and use for four months straight so a lot of good it did.
  11. joberri

    joberri Active Member

    10 days off bup...as to clonidine I didn't take it but still felt like a Zombie. Had valium but fairly low doses that actually smartened the head up a bit. I think the zombic lethary is just part of bup detox and I'd rather cope with that than serious junk sickness or methadone w/d!! Head cleared after about 6-7 days and felt so good by day 8 that I was the world's biggest **** up and after nearly 2 yrs clean I had a taste!! I have to go back to work tonight after 11 days off and had I not ****ed up I'd be feelimg normal. Soooo pissed off at myself and suffered severely the next day (ie. yesterday). I had totally forgotten what its like to crave having been on bup so long. Not craving now just feeling like a dickhead!
    sorry to be negative need to get this off my chest

  12. SlipMan

    SlipMan Well-Known Member

    JOberri---I'm not sure why you were so pissed..was it work?
  13. wdartmore

    wdartmore Well-Known Member

    Hey Spring,

    I didn't mean to crowd you. I thought you were looking for my experience on how I did my taper.

    I'll say this. You get off when you decide to and not a minute sooner. If you aren't ready don't rock the boat. But don't think you can't do it either. You can, just when you are ready.


  14. wdartmore

    wdartmore Well-Known Member

    Yes the do sound similar. Congrats to you too.My last day was the 5th.

    In one of your posts you both praise clonodine and bag it. I think the clonodine is required for success. First the withdrawal will make your blood pressure crazy anyway so the clonodine helps there but it's primary function is to block the excess of neurotransmitters that flood your body during detox. And off of suboxone it seems that it works great.

    But it does make you kind of draggy, and you have to slowly cut back off the clonodine you can't just stop.

    Keep going man, and watch out for the slipups. I was at a relatives house and they had a big bottle of pain killers sitting around and it would have been soooooo easy to say hey gimme a few of those. I got my ass out the door and you could hear the burning rubber for miles...


  15. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    I think that was me Walt...I quit the Suboxone on the 4th...used the Clonidine for 3 1/2 days, and then stopped it cuz my ass wuz draggin from it...didn't have any problems bailing from it at all.
  16. spring

    spring Administrator

    No apology neseccary Walt. I asked for your info. I AM wanting to know all I can before I do it. To be honest, I'm afraid of doing it at all. And not so much out of fear of detox..(been there, done that too many times), mainly fear of relapse which I have ALSO done many times!!

    ~~~Do the right thing and risk the consequences~~~Spring~~~
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