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going to get off sub

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Bonita, Sep 18, 2008.

  1. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member


    Ty for stopping by my jump buddy. I follow your blog and love it. Makes me feel special to know you and be your partner in the healing process. Its cool to know when reading we did this together. I actually know a star! You are a star in my heart.

    Well I did it, appointment made for two weeks from today. That puts me one week before ins. kicks in so I am able to follow thru with whatever needs done. I talk to my old neuro doctor for another name incase I feel need for 2nd opinion. He laugh at me saying he feels for whomever ends up with me. He fired me as a patient a few yrs back, we kinda stepped over the proper lines of doc/patient relationship. He was such a big help back then getting me thru the detox phase of sub. He helped me get off all the ms meds so I could have the iboga tx then fired me once I was thru it all. We actually dated for a while a yr later and still spend time together now. Just not as doctor/pt any longer. I was/am never a easy patient for anyone. Being a nurse it's harder for MDs to take the unquestioning control they love to have and not fight for. They actually have to justify any tx/test or meds they order. They hate that. Rather have a patient not question and obey as if they are god. Anyways.. Did what I was told and made appointment. I actually do feel some relief having gotten this far. I work this week so won't have to think about me, nice break from me.

    Ty you all for the support ....I really need it. This coming weekend will be having crabs with my life coach and bring her up to date and on board. I think soon I will have to hand over the reigns to her for control. I am sorta looking forward to that which surprises me. I worked so hard to gain the insight/right to make my own decisions w/o checking in and here i am now looking
    forward to Having another involved with every move I make. Hehe..how things change
  2. Friend2U

    Friend2U Well-Known Member

    Hmmm...so many posts deleted...can't seem to put what i want to say into words...I am so pleased (thrilled really!!) you made the call & have the appointment! Whatever news you get please know you are not alone! There is the real life support you have & all of us on ODR. It's so hard to be a nurse & be on the other side of the bed...trust in your doctor is essential & not holding any questions back is equally important..having a close friend or other support person with you when you go to doctor is a good idea..sometimes we don't remember everything & sometimes the other person will ask question we may not have thought of...
    Enjoy this weekend & if you need help pulling up your pants just ask LOL
  3. peacenik

    peacenik Administrator

    Hi Bonita,
    You know one thing that bugs me is when people say "you're going to have to take opiates for that". I'm saying this to you Bonita because I know you. I know how committed to recovery you are.
    I have seen lots of people over the years come here trying to kick who had been in recovery for years but had started back up after taking drugs following surgery or for an injury.

    I personally think that the pain you have after a surgery is way overstated and I know that drugs are way overprescribed. I have been drug free for almost 26 years. I have had lots of times over the years when I've had some pain but every time ibuprofen was all I took, and every time the pain went away pretty quickly. You know what I consider pain? My life before I gave up drugs.

    I'm not saying it's not possible to use painkillers and emerge afterwards and get back on track, but my experience was not that. Once in an earlier attempt at getting clean I had maybe 90 days and hurt my ankle at work, took two percosets at the emergency room, and relapsed on h two days later.

    So this time I've been very careful and I guard my recovery. I won't take any psychoactive drugs. I had oral surgery early on where they scrape down your jaw bone. I've had toothaches, I've had my back go out on me. And some years ago I had a bad case of adhesive capsulitis in my shoulder. I had a manipulation for that and I imagine most people would have taken pain meds but again, I got through it OK without.

    Indeed, I think the attitude to have, rather than "You're going to have to take opiates for that" is "I can't take opiates, so how are we going to proceed?" The Dr.s I see are usually very willing to avoid the drugs.

    Now Bonita, we will support you no matter what, I'm not going to judge or give you a hard time should you go a different way, but I wanted to share with you my experience. I know you're able to see the big picture and its this: The pain post surgery will pass. A day or two and it will be gone.

    Best to you Bonita
  4. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Hey friend...
    As I said before. Pls don't flower with me. You see me lying to self, setting myself up for relapse don't hesitate to confront me. I may act out at the moment but will make me look at what I am doining, how I am thinking and may just save my life. I am thick skinned and rather have hurt feelings then back to where I was 4 yrs ago.

    Of course last night when in the dark thinking I totally convince myself I am a fool to put myself in harms way with trying to get shoulder fixed. My friends here for the week and since we both have had similar recovery path it was great to be able to share how fearful I am. He gets it. He did bring up good points. What if the same happens to lt shoulder, then where would I be? Better take care of things as they come up. I just hate aging. All the abuse we put ourselves in over the yrs will bite up sooner or later. It's just happening sooner then I would like. My friend brought up the fact just because I am now trying to do the next right thing dosnt mean I don't have to pay for my past. Natural to age, natural to deteriate as we get older, I am not special that I don't have to go thru the same as everyone else. I just have lost the right to blindly medicate myself to feel good for the moment. Right now would give my right arm not to be an addict. I always think about those that say " I'm a greatful addict". I have yet felt that way. Very greatful not to be in active addiction but never greatful for the fact that I have had the experiences I have! I would prefer to be one of those who never was a dope addict, never lost the right to take a pill just for the moment. Rather not have put myself thru all that crap just to the knowledge I have now about addiction. I am not a greatful addict. Could have done without it all. Prefer to have total different life. Hate to be in the struggle now, hate to fear what I am. Lol, in big time woe is me moment! I want the right to escape me for now! Tired of pain..but at least I am not in emotional pain right now and just physical. Don't think I could handle both.
  5. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Gm Dave,

    I hope your right Dave that dope wont be in the picture here. I know if I take any form of it I am done...dosnt matter the reason. So yup...i don't have that option. I do have a High pain tolerance and I know it. Yup..the last three or so yrs I never needed them. Not for dental work, not when I thru back out and not once since I have damaged my shoulder. Motrin is my doc and I know a great pain reliever. Reading your post...I think I just might be setting my self up with excuses to use. Really, how much worse can it be? And yes physical pain is temporary. Even if chronic..dope dosnt take it away. Has never in the past, what's different now?

    Ty. I am so full of ****. Wtf was I thinking. Reading your post just gave me such clarification.
    Who am I fooling but me. I just need to get very black and white about this. Dope is not an option for me. It's my fought I can't take it. You know..I think I was looking for permission here..maybe even a little excited that i might be getting a "free lapse". Really no such thing for me. It's a choice... I use this to get high or I don't. Yup...not one junkie I ever met in person or net has ever used dope post surgical that didnt loose all they fought so hard to achieve. No
    such thing as controlled use for me. Damn it.
  6. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I think I am already in the middle of a relapse. Just didn't ingest the dope yet. My head is there though.
  7. peacenik

    peacenik Administrator

    Bonita, If you were in a relapse, you wouldn't be talking to us here. We all waver in recovery and that's why we keep sharing, keep in contact with our friends who
    have been through it and know. Three years is not so long. Great accomplishment yes, but not really so long when you consider how long you used. I used for 19 years. I wrote my story "Coming full Circle" when I had 19 years clean and truthfully, it was really only then that I figured I had this :)

    From what you've said it sounds to me that you're OK - that you will get through this. Like I said above I know that you are someone who sees the big picture. You know that a test,
    a difficult time that we go through is really a blessing in disguise. You will come out of this stronger, wiser, and more at peace.

    I do hope you're OK Bonita, I know a shoulder hurts, mine did for quite a while but the thing is you don't have to walk on it, so you can get through the day without too much pain if you're careful.
    Let us know what's up OK?
  8. Friend2U

    Friend2U Well-Known Member


    I agree with Dave. If your head is there then change that "stinking thinking". As i read this from Dave:" From what you've said it sounds to me that you're OK - that you will get through this. Like I said above I know that you are someone who sees the big picture. You know that a test,
    a difficult time that we go through is really a blessing in disguise. You will come out of this stronger, wiser, and more at peace."
    I believe this also. You do look at the big picture & the more people you bring into your life right now the stronger you will be. So continue reaching out & we will be here in force for you!

  9. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Dave.. I am sure your right that I will get stronger due to this but damn it sucks. Maybe relapse not right word and pre lapse fits better. No doubt I was on my way to great suffering thinking I could take any opiate no matter the reason.

    I was cleaning up after dinner last night and used right arm to put food in fridge, of course it pop out and sent such pain down to the tips of my fingers. Didn't want my visitors see me cry so got bag of ice and excused myself to my room. Took my motrin and began count down. My pain went from 10 tp a 8 w/in 25 mins. I was at a 6 by the time bed time came around. Sleep was interrupted over and over but this am back to the normal low level discomfort one can ignore.

    Friend your right at that continual pain will lower ones self built walls so no way I am not going
    to follow up. In the little sleep I did get it was riddled with dope dreams. I never used in them but all night running from it. Done with that. Can't wait to met this surgeon. Hope to get this behind me by the end of march. As soon as I finish what I am obligated to do then it's going to be attended too. I did talk to j last night to inform him no way post-op dope and wanted to know option if he knew them. I am a heart/lung/emergency nurse and my knowledge of ortho is very limited. The weekend will be research time to see what's been happening in the ortho field.

    I maybe making more of this then needed...just scared. It's always been a low level fear since I finally kick active addiction to the curb. Then hearing from Arlene that short visit really didn't relieve my fears as I had hoped and "picked" for. I just want it all behind me.

    Ty all for hearing me and supporting me. Friend step up to the plate if you will and tell me if you see red flags or have suggestions. I could use a nurse about now with more or any experience with ortho. You know one thing...I am so glad I had experience with pain/surgery and dope vrs motrin in the past. Then I surly took motrin for the pain but kept the diludid pump anyways. This go I plan two days of torodal then my doc motrin with what I know about so far.
    Love to all. To those still in struggle fighting for your life...keep the fight going no matter how many slips it takes to come out of that death trap. Life is really grand even in the dark days compared to the dope life. No doubt...not once in last three yrs did I even secretly want it back. I just went thru secretly excited I may get a free lapse....but I learned a couple yrs ago if I just share it goes away pretty fast. When I tell another I am in a struggle I leave half of it there..then prayer always knocks the rest out if it lingers. Sure am content theses days.
  10. guinevere64

    guinevere64 Well-Known Member

    Bonita... I've found the surest way to avert/avoid a relapse is to talk to people honestly about how I'm feeling... you're doing that. I hear you on the using dreams though. I hate having those and not too long ago had one. I never get off on the drug in my dreams anymore; sometimes I go to pick it up and it dissolves and reappears somewhere else; sometimes I use and can't feel anything. I feel like it's my subconscious trying to deal with my daytime thoughts of using and, at the same time, my conflicting underlying true desire to stay sober. A huge conflict when I pause to think about it--which my dream makes me do.

    Talk to the physician. meanwhile easy does it. much love /G
  11. old man

    old man Well-Known Member

    Bonita ive been following this thread the last few days and havent replied to it because i just got myself clean and also because i know nothing about the type of surgery you are facing. I just want you to know i wish you the very best of luck with what the future brings. I can understand you fear. I see where you are getting advise from some vets here that youve known from being a long time member here. Im sure that is a wonderful feeling for you. I noticed you posted you thought you had already relapsed just hadnt taken the drugs yet. Have to disagree with you there and heres why. My DOC for many years was alcohol and i fought it until it almost killed me. My first real attempt to get sober was in 1992 and i remained sober for 14 months until my first of many relapses. My first 12 months i was very active in AA. Got my year chip and quit going. 2 months later i started drinking agaian. My relapse started befor i took that first drink though i didnt realize it. My point is in those 2 months i sat around and isolated myself. Didnt pick up the phone call my sponsor didnt walk up the street 2 blocks away to the church where there were 3 or 4 meetings a week. You havent relapsed yet because you are taking action right now by reaching out. You mentioned the freebie use or something like that in case you had surgery and had to use opiates. Thats just the old addict in you maybe daydreaming for a moment or something like that. I think that people with longer amounts of recovery then yourself perhaps might do the same. Anyway my best wishes to you Bonita
  12. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Ty old man for chiming in for me. Believe me you have much to offer all of us.

    Strange... Sometimes I am just riddled in fear. Then I make wrong move and send pain down to finger tips but dope never comes to mind. My buddy left yesterday and it was great to spend time with him. I only have about 9-10 mo on him as far as clean time but sharing with him felt great. We made a pack that if I mess up he will give me three mo needed to heal. If using then he comes to get me and flys me to Costa Rica for help. No one can force anyone to want freedom from addiction.. He said he don't care what I want. I have work to do and can't do it using. He gets how our thinking changes once dope ingested. He really believes in me, our work and knows I will not be content using. He feels if he confronts me that out of shame can get me where I should be then its up to me to do the work needed. I have much respect for him and how far he has come in three yrs. he went from living off the grid to being a part of society. He is also very smart and reads people like a book. Makes me feel safer to know I have folks willing to do whatever it takes to help me save my life. I can see him taking me kicking/screaming to a safe place to detox. I just don't ever want to have to detox again. Physical pain isn't shet compared to pain of a dead spirit. Once I got in touch with my spirit self I believe breathing w/o it would be unbearable.

    Did some research today but just have to let go. I get in trouble when I dx or tx myself. I have to find a md I can trust and just turn it over. Much like I did with j getting off the sub. For me, treating myself is dangerous. I think once my shoulder is replaced or what ever I need to plan to visit Costa Rica anyways. Something about being close to nature/jungle and a few in early recovery just might feed my needs. Giving/sharing is food for the soul.

    Ty all for support and prayers. Love this forum. Love to read others wanting the freedom we find in sober living. I learn so much about myself thru everyone here.
  13. guinevere64

    guinevere64 Well-Known Member

    where is Jay, anyhow? Bonita, do you know? ... anyone ever hear from Arlene? last I heard, she had surgery too, and I think someone mentioned her on this thread. /G
  14. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    I have not heard from Jay in a long time. I do wish he would chim in here and there to let us know he is all good. I know his Bday just passed recently. That man will always have a special place in my heart. He was so patient with me, kind even when I was not. We all could use a Jay when in midst of a detox. I hardly went to the bathroom without his permission. I had full faith that he was being striaght with me in what to expect from the sub detox. Not flowering it so I would continue the wean. I am one that does better when I know what to expect. I dont care if negative or not. If I believed it was going to be painless or easy as the MD claimed and then had the struggles we had I would have thrown in the towel much sooner then I did. I didnt stay clean after my sub stint but did allow some healing before I gave up relapsed. I did learn so much about addiction due to suboxone which really did help me finally finding my way to sober living. I guess all happens for a reason. I sure will never put anything in my system without researching it to death first. No more blind faith in the medical field. Being a nurse you would think I knew this. Being in active addiction it really didnt matter what I knew. Until I could think with a clear mind I only believed in what I felt for the moment.
    Arlene did stop by for a short time.... She did have hip surgery and I think was facing another surgery but not sure. She did say she had a difficult time sitting for lenght of time and it made it difficult to post.
    I wish she would check in too. Maybe those who are in touch with her can share we all miss her and would love to hear from here. Even if just to say hi.
  15. old man

    old man Well-Known Member

    Hey Bonnie hope all is going well with you. Im posting this to you here since its your thread and i figure you will see it here. This is more of a request for knowledge more then anything else. I know your a nurse so i thought maybe you could help me out here. Have 2 friends whom both have the same Dr. The same Dr did this 2 years ago and now has done it agaian. You call his office and call wont go thru like the phone is disconnected. You go to his office and the doors locked. No sign on door no phone calls to patient that hes retiring nothing. He did this 2 years ago and reopend his office in the same city of Marietta Ohio onlu at a different locations about 3 miles away. The one lady i know no longer uses his service as of 3 months ago but needs her medical records from him. The other lady has i know at least 3 different types of medicine he prescribes her and shes out of all 3. She actually drove to his office wednesday and said she could see a light on in his office. This same Dr has his office in a older 2 story house and uses the downstairs for his office and im almost positive lives in the upstairs. She said his Van was parked outside the office that day and she beat on the door for 15 minutes and noone answered the door. I checked him out on a dr website and see that his license is valid until sometime in 2014. How can he legally do this without at least phone calls or letters to the patients. Do you have any idea what these people are suppose to do? There is not even any type of letter or paper on his door for patients to read. I know you can call some sort of medical board and complain but its not like they will send someone right there and break down his door so the patients can at least obtain there medical records. Any suggestions?
  16. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    Truth is the good old boy mentality is very much alive when it comes to MDs. What he's doing is illegal but not much we can do. Reporting it for sure...but in reality will this help your friend now...not much. Will help those in the future.

    I don't know what meds this person is on but many one can not just stop. So first, foremost their safety needs to be address. They need to get medically treated for themselves, worry about the quack later. This MD apparently has no conscious and could care less for his patients. They need to take the bottles of their meds and any other recordS they might have and see a real MD. Pending on meds the MD will write rx for the ones needed to cover a week or so and that MD can request records from the quack. He will get a response faster. They need to not stay with quack because he did it before and will again.

    I suggest to hasten the process they can go to a walk-in like care first clinic or whatever is in your area with bottles in hand to get the necessary meds needed immed. Once they are taken care of then concentrate on the quack. Heath first though.

    I know a few quacks who behave this way...in fact the quack who scripted me 40 of sub did the same. When I did get off sub I went for a "visit" to him...his last words to me was "get out of my office, to many to take your place and you will be dead in a yr." I wanted him to see I was not dead. I did report him to those who govern him and suboxone. The sub creeps did answer my report with "we do not get involved with how a certified MD scripts suboxone". I never heard back from medical board. He did close up the two offices he had w/in 5 miles of my home and moved to other side of city. I did find him and still practicing as far as I know. He is notorious for easy mark to get opiates, stimulates etc and rx suboxone too. Here sub can bring easy cash on streets so many are in the business of slinging sub along with h. I knew a few who use that quack for both sub and opiates. Just takes cash and a few ids...one
    can go into business supplementing income.

    If I can make any more suggestions to help let me know. They need to concentrate on themselves first. Also take with them the pharmacy number the get meds from. The new MD can get a lot of info from them on how to treat them immed, good physical then make the changes needed for optimal care.
  17. Bonita

    Bonita Well-Known Member

    HBO showing "The Corner". Always makes me so sad. I see myself all over those corners. Hated it then and hate the memory now. Cool thing is many who they based the series on are still strong in the rooms. Few dead and gone. Few struggle here and there. Best thing ever happen to this city was little hamsterdamn. That was short lived. I at times have to go to Penn station. Leaves such a hole in my gut. I wonder if those feelings will ever fade. I am alive, doing well today and you would think that would lift the sadness surrounding those memories but dosnt. Maybe once i hit yr 5, never made it that far ..... I am pretty confident this will be my first. Maybe just winter blues, seeing my mother age so quickly .....or her losing herself and forgetting we are not there any more. Took her out of town in hopes she misses the series on hbo...I was late, her mentality was right back there and reliving it as if real today. I hate to say this but the talk coming out of her mouth made me hate her for a minute. Finally playing poker brought her back to today and how we live now, not 20 yrs ago. I am tiring of addiction today, tired of seeing it day in/out, seeing the lies to preserve that life. Right this min I am tired of even trying to help addicts who I know are just spinning wheels. Tired of being lied too, tired of going out of my way to help only to be played. I need more then just a few days away..that's not working right now. Maybe time to give up trying to help for a while. Go back to hospital work where I can make more money, work a shift and walk away oblivious to the rest.

    Hope all is well with everyone, for those in midst of struggle...it can end one day for you. Just keep doing the next right thing.
  18. spring

    spring Administrator

    I understand what you're saying. I read somewhere about the high burn-out rate among people in the addiction field and I can see why.. Even though I'm not face to face, I know just from being here day after day for the past 13+ years how depressing and discouraging it gets to give your help... heart and soul.. only to find out that the person gave up and relapsed, or was just playing games to begin with, and some never return so you don't know which way it turned out for them.

    But then there's always that one person out of every 50 or so that ends up making it and some even stay on for awhile to help pay it forward. Those who make it are the ones who make it all worth it.

    I have always heard thru the years the talk about how only 5 out of every hundred make it out and stay out of active addiction. My response to that was and still is...there's no reason why "I" can't be one of those 5.

    For you Bonita, the way you deal face to face with addicts constantly...are you thinking it would do you some good to take a step back from the life for awhile? You don't want to risk jeopardizing your own emotional and physical health.
    When you give your all on a constant basis, I would think that sometimes you have to take a break and become the receiver for a bit.
  19. old man

    old man Well-Known Member

    To Bonita and Spring i just want to say Thank You Both. Its people like both of you that have been here for years helping others like myself who have just gotten clean..get clean.

    If it wasn't for this site i wouldn't have been aware of the evils of suboxone. Great detox med but that's how i feel about suboxone. If i had listened to the Dr and followed his plan i don't even want to think about what would have happened with me.

    The way i feel is i owe it to people like the 2 of you to stick around and to pay it forward. I imagine there are quite a few people who are living drug free lives now because of you 2. I figure there are people out there who are alive now because of you 2. People that would be in prison now, but aren't because of you 2. Children who are growing up in healthy families with caring parents because of you 2. The list is endless of positive things because of you 2.

    I understand the frustration you speak of about trying to help others and being played for and things of that sort. Bonita if you feel a need to step back and take a break in my book you've earned a break. Both you and Spring have earned it 10 fold. Once again thank you both for being here for people like me.
    Old Man
  20. spring

    spring Administrator

    Wow OM, you brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for your kind words but the truth is that I can take very little of the credit, if any.

    I am simply paying it forward just like you are and just like so many more have in the past and still are. I found this site by accident while doing a search for help with my home detox. I was in agony and still very unfamiliar with computers.

    My search for heroin detox brought up a long list of links but this one happened to be the first one I clicked on...and here I stayed.

    I was overwhelmed with the support I received from the members at the time. If it hadn't been for those who reached out to me, my experience may have been much different. But, after many starts/fails and a whole bunch of tries with the unconditional support and encouragement from other members.. I finally got it. And just like you, I stayed around to pay it forward.

    Doc Scott, the owner of the board, needed a moderator at the time and since I was here daily, he appointed me as the mod, but with the fast rate this board was growing we needed another one and then another one, etc so he appointed me as an admin so I could do the recruiting.....and the rest is history.

    So the true praise goes out to all the members who post because whether it's a cry for help or a few words of encouragement or detailed info on how to taper...it all helps to know that none of us are alone in this.

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