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Getting off Bupe/Sub, a place to post experiences

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Bup4pain, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. merton

    merton Member

    Hey need to be clean
    Tramadol amd ultram are the same thing and the withdrawls from them
    can be difficult -sweats bathroom time ,but mostly painc attacks
    That was my experence, tho i also used them to get off a 20 a day vike habit , but i only took 1 or 2 a day for a week and it helped a little.
    I still had a week of hell and a month of no energy.
    As far as the for every year on meth thing , i know a lot of people
    clean off meth and it took them about 6 months to feel normal agian.
    one thing that helps with feeling normal agian when getting clean from any opiat is lots of exersize and b vitamins.
    seems a lot of addicts don't feel normal after getting off the opiates
    after 3 to 6 months is because they continue to take other drugs
    , like antidepressents and benzos to name a few .
    what im trying to say is , best to get totoly clean when getting of opiates, this gives the body a chance to work natrauly/ heal natrauly/
    I must also mention the severe depression that come with withdrawling from opiats most people just have to hang in there with the depression
    ,it will pass. Now there are cases where some people have a mental
    disorder and they may need antideprssents, people like this can become
    depressed to the point where they do try to kill them selves
    where your average addict just feels that way for a months or so.
    merton
     
  2. mayofree

    mayofree Well-Known Member

    My doctor presribed clonidine It didn't do a thing for me. He also prescribed wellbutrin which I think helped me alot. He prescribed seroquel for sleep after clonidine thing. I took one and it knocked me out.
     
  3. merton

    merton Member

    to need 2be clean
    as far as the suboxone detox,
    i dont know what dose you are trying to withdrawl from,
    but i started at 16 mgs a day and after a 8months to a year
    i ween down to .5mg which was me cutting a 2mg into 4 parts
    and taking 1 of the parts day for a month
    also each time i cut down in dose i would stop taking any sub for 3 days ,untill i started to feel the restless leg pain at night .
    It was suggested by a girl from astraila here on this fourm.
    she shared her experence on getting off the sub , and how she got down to .5 and then jumped off , she said she felt crappy for a month and then started feeling better and better, she gave me my hope and
    i did the way she did it ,today life is good , ive been off it of 6 months and feel normal, i exersize and take lots of vitamine s.
    i stayed away from the the clonidine because the sub doctor i had
    told me the clonidine was just in my head and it would just make me weak. the doctor basicaly thought colidine was useless.
    merton
     
  4. merton

    merton Member

    well
    for any one getting off the sub , cutting down very slowy to the smallest dose possible is a great way to jump off. at that point
    once the withdrawls show up and ya can't sleep because of the restless leg and restlessbody , a little xanax or valume helps greaty to get some sleep, tho one should only take for sleep and only for say a week after the tought withdrawls begin.
    merton
     
  5. need2bclean

    need2bclean Well-Known Member

    Thanks Merton, for your advice and reply.

    It's always good to hear a success story, HOW you beat it and what meds you used.

    Take care,

    need2b
     
  6. mirage75

    mirage75 Well-Known Member

    I too am preparing to jump off sub; thank you merton for sharing your experience- I am now thinking of tapering lower than 4 , though I will take it as it goes....

    Was the w/d as severe as a full agonist?? A month sounds like a long time.....


    -Chris
     
  7. jellyfountain

    jellyfountain New Member

    Think I came of Sub far too quickly. 14 days after my last dose 16mg down to 0.4 in 6 weeks and i feel so bad. I have legit pain complain and found sub great for it so maybe a long term maintennace dose may work for me
    Any opinions?
    peace
    Paul
     
  8. mirage75

    mirage75 Well-Known Member

    Only that if you want to use sub for pain maybe you should consider buprenex; the pain killing benifit of suboxone orally is supposed to be short lived and I can say that from personal experience that it is.

    I am currently on low dose sub , within the range where it is supposed to act most like a traditional opiate , and my pain is as bad or worse than it has ever been.

    Take care Paul ,
    Chris
     
  9. Sharron

    Sharron New Member

    I have been on Suboxone, 32 mg. per day for 10 months. These months are the happiest, healthiest I have had in 35 years of addiction. I've even returned to work after 15 years on Social Security. My doctor says he sees no reason to think this can't continue successfully for the rest of my life. My question is, why do you feel it is neccesary to get off Suboxone? I had many clean spells but always relapsed because the depression and anxiety of life was just too great. This is no longer true for me. With the Suboxone I have a good life that I am able to live fully from the moment I wake up till I go to sleep at night. Plus, I wake up actually looking forward to the day! So, if others are having this positive experience on Subosone, why must it end?

    Sharron Bowman
     
  10. JaH

    JaH Well-Known Member

    If you don't mind being on an opiate permanently -- or if you've found that suboxone (or methadone) is the only way you can enjoy a functioning happy life -- then there's nothing wrong with it.
     
  11. Mic

    Mic Guest

    Sharron-
    I agree with you! Much is said about the negatives of staying on Sub, but like you, things in my life are really good right now. I, too, was a chronic, habitual relapser despite every effort(therapy, counselling, AA/NA, aftercare) and now have a great deal of hope. I don't ever want to relive the days when I wake up, and think,wtf, is this all there is?
    Job, family, friends, hope: things that eluded me for a very long time cuz I couldn't stay off opiates.
    I'm happy for you, and don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. Best of luck to you! MIC
     
  12. Mic

    Mic Guest

    Monette-
    Wel, I can answer two of the three questions. One can stay on Sub indefinately, as a maintenance med. However, I don't believe enough is known yet about long-term side effects, since Sub was only approved as an (opiate-detox med) in 2002. More studies are required,imho, before it's safety as a maintenace med is better understood. As far as tolerance is concerned, not positive. I feel tolerance does develop, but to a lesser degree than full opies. I'd like to hear from an expert on this one.
    Lastly, no, suboxone is not prescribed for pain; it's specifically designed for opiate dependency. However, Buprenorphine, the ingredient in Sub, is widely used for pain. Buprenex has been around for a very long time as an analgesic. I've heard that many doc's (personally) prefer Bup for their personal pain-relief needs,cuz of it's reduced abuse/dependency potential. Good luck to you! MIC
     
  13. Mic

    Mic Guest

    Monette-
    Tell you to piss off? NOT. You raise important questions. Live in the moment, but plan for the future. Good stuff,imo.
    Would I return to street drugs (or script drugs from a doc or the street) if the rug "were pulled out from under me"? Not, sure. I'm doing lots of stuff recovery-related,and may be OK in either event. But, right now I'm keen on stability! Sub has allowed me to work on areas of my life, get my hsit together so to speak. I'm on 12 mgs./day, having started on 16mgs. months ago. My doc and I agree that in my case a long, slow taper is best. By long and slow, I mean LONG and SLOW. So, yes, maintenance may be the term for now.
    Oh, btw, not sure I understand your question about how Sub maintenace is "viewed by the medical community" Are you asking whether, by and large, doctors subscribe to the notion of Sub maintenace?
    Or are you asking how patients on Sub maintenance will be viewed by docs in general? Not sure which.
    But I think it's too early to rate the medical community's stance on this at the moment. I personally believe that most docs would prefer that we be on nothing, instead of something. As you know, it depends on teh individual and their history.
    Talk soon. MIC
     
  14. Von Sloneker

    Von Sloneker Member

    I need quick and very important advice. From '96 - '00, I'd gotten a hydro habit up to 60 7.5/750's a day (had the money and the "access" back then). I failed twice on 21-day methadone programs. Finally, I went on methadone maintenance (worst decision of my life in retrospect - save for the decision to start hydro in the first place, obviously).

    Here's the deal: The clinic started me at 100mg of methadone, then 80, then to 60 (over the course of six months and my insistence - God knows they love keepin' ya there). I had to relocate to a state that had no clinics, and like a complete 'tard, I took my 7 "take-home" bottles of 60mg and tried to sip away slowly - detoxing myself off that garbage from 60 to 0. I made it last almost 20 days before I was out. Then the ravens came. (Long & shot: I flew back and went on a 40-day detox from 60 to zero.) It took me SEVEN WHOLE MONTHS after I was off to NOT feel any of the methadone talons in my system (constant hum of WD's non-stop for seven months; precious little sleep, ungodly fatigue... you guys know all that). It gets into your bone marrow, your upper intestine, etc., and just drops anchor - LONG after you're off (at that level), and it leaches into your system little by little until you can finally purge it all. Needless to say, long-term methadone (or even SHORT-term) for me is NO kind of option.

    Stayed clean for about three years, had a surgery, and thought I could handle a few hydros (we're tough, right? We can control ourselves, right?) for the intense pain "as prescribed." Well, here I am, up to 100mg of hydro a day (nowhere near my first love affair), and I'm considering Suboxone (even have an appointment for Monday). BUT, the MORE I READ here, the more I'm starting to reconsider Sub. I've had to filter through so many methadone-to-Sub crossover posts to find those who have only used Sub to get off hydro (I know enough about the interminable latency of methadone to believe that most of those complaints are a result of the methadone still in their systems, and NOT so much the Sub).

    I'm only planning a short Sub detox (I'm not planning on hanging around for the long-term programs here). But, so many of you guys are talking about not getting sleep after coming off Sub, and all these horror stories about weeks-long WD's after stepping off Sub, that I'm nervous as hell now. My appointment's tomorrow, so I hope my history can help someone keep me from (or help me to) making a good decision here. Sorry this was so long, but I read so many "experience" posts, and very few let us know the specifics of their habit prior to these experiences - that's why I laid it all out there. Thanks in advance, ok?
     
  15. JaH

    JaH Well-Known Member

    Hey Von, please don't worry about those sub horror stories -- they're mainly meant to remind people that sub is no "magic bullet" and that there are no fcree lunches when it comes to getting off opiates.

    I had the same size (hydro) habit that you have now, and I did sub for less than two weeks. I had a few days of depression and weakness starting about 4 days after I stopped the sub, but within two weeks I was feeling pretty damn good. Just expect to have less than normal energy, to have some leg restlessness and sleep disturbances at night, and some aches and pains and difficulty feeling "motivated" for a few weeks. And all that's hardly worth getting tiewd up in knots over.

    Remember, addiction robs us of the normal human tolerance for discomfort -- even mild discomfort. So just keep your perspective, and remember a few weeks of mild to moderate malaise is a very small price to pay for getting your whole life back.

    It's now 7 weeks since I stopped the sub, and I've got to tell you, I feel MUCH BETTER than I have in a very long time.
     
  16. kurt

    kurt Active Member

    I have a question. Is buprenex cheaper than Suboxone? Also, I take 8mg suboxone tablets, 16mg per day. Temgesic tablets come in .2 mg. Is it the naloxone contained in suboxone that requires a larger doseage? What dose of bupe would equal 16 mg suboxone? Is it cheaper? Is there a cheaper alternative to sub.?
     
  17. Von Sloneker

    Von Sloneker Member

    JaH,

    Man, thanks for the clarity in your response. You know what? You pointed out something so profound, I bet it would normally just blow buy, buried in your reply. You mentioned that us hydro/opiate addicts have (not quoting verbatim) for all intents and purposes destroyed our threshold for "normal" pain. I don't care what anyone says, but that was a cocoanut landing on my head. For so long, our mind is being "treated" to a "normal pain" vacation. Hell, did you ever remember complaining of minor aches or headaches when you had a candy dish full of hydros on your coffee table? So, when we finally get all these opiates and detox supplements out of our systems, Hello, Dolly. The aches and pains are magnified and, as I know from the past, a lot of them are just garden-variety discomforts of normal living that we haven't noticed for so long. Well, it's definitely of value, and something I'm going to be thinking about along the way.

    By the way, can someone illuminate me on something?

    Of all the drugs in this Buprenorphine family, which one seems to be the most beneficial (IF there's any such thing when it all boils down)? And, what the hell do these bad boys cost? Someone just showed concern looking for "cheaper" brands, so it got me wonderin' how hellacious the overall cost is gonna be on these scripts (the doctor's visit tomorrow's kinda steep, so how much am I roughly lookin' at for, say, two weeks' worth... tops?). Thanks, RaH, and anyone who else who cares enough to read through this screed and proffer some answers/help!
     
  18. cgdg

    cgdg Well-Known Member

    I found that once I got completely off OC's and Bupe, I actually had LESS pain then when I was on it.[?]

    When I was doing Oxy's, I'd wake in the middle of the night, and my joints would kill. I mean, just straightening out my leg would be excrutiating.

    And my lower back (source of many a problem) stopped aching as bad once off OC's and on Bupe; once off Bupe completely, I had absolutely no pain at all.

    Odd, how the things we take initially to help us end up hurting us in the long run.

    Oh yeah, that's called "abuse."[:eek:)]
     
  19. mallomar

    mallomar Well-Known Member

    So based on all this- what is the suggested time to be on Sub?

    If a person knows themselves and knows a month is too quick of an adjustment time, would 3 months be a good compromise?

    mallomar
     
  20. Von Sloneker

    Von Sloneker Member

    Mal, JaH seems to have at least answered that question for me. I'm sure there's some fuzzy math in there somewhere - too bad there aren't any solid detox algorithms for DOC x Daily Dosages / Time Span Used =... (back to the "everybody metabolizes differently." I read a lot of JaH's posts (as time is a factor for me; my appointment's tomorrow, and I just signed up this weekend on this forum). Been reading like a FIEND. JaH seems to be pretty sage in his advice, and I'm going to pray that I can sort of mirror his program based on the length and amount of my current hydro bender vis-a-vis HIS detox schedule.

    But, I sucked down a couple teaspoons of cheesy codeine cough syrup a few hours ago and took a xanax to keep from jumping out the window. Will the xanax and/or codeine (10mg/tsp.) I ingested today screw me up with my first Bup dose tomorrow? Anyone know? Thanks, guys.
     

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