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Doc....?

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by Loop, Mar 4, 2004.

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  1. Loop

    Loop Guest

    Hiya Doc,

    I guess if you're reading this you found it!I don't wanna become a pain but I was hoping you could answer my *simple* question:

    Is Subutex addictive?

    I posted my situation under the topic by the same name.Basically my Dr at my addiction clinic here in UK says they've never had a problem with people on maintenance dropping off.I asked "are you guaranteeing me that I won't feel W/D coming off this (when I do)" n he said 'YES'.

    I wanted to taper off in a month but he wants to keep me on for a few months.I just want to sort my life out now I'm clean-I'm aware I'll always be one shot away form being a junky n I wanted to change to naltrexone.

    It just annoyed me-he dismissed everything I said as rubbish off net.Now I can't stop stressing about it.I don't want to battle with another addiction-I'm already on Effexor 75(mg?) a day n I saw a psychiatrist who wanted to double that but I'm just sick of all these medications.

    The general answer on the site seems to be that some people have a problem n some don't!If I do feel bad then its likely to last up to 5 weeks(?).I can't cope with 5 weeks severe depression-I get really irrational n despair.I'm also on my last chance at university n cannot afford time off.My biggest problems lethargy anyway-I can't cope with more!But...the general consensus seems to be if you taper slow enough its not too bad.Daily supervised pickup 2miles away dosn't help-I don't wanna be doin that for months.

    Sorry Doc,now I'm just moaning!I can't change Drs as he's this towns only addiction Dr-at the Clinic anyway.He's only in on thursdays n has now gone on hols for a month so our dosages are stuck til he gets back.

    I hate being treated like a no-good junky.I never stole to support my habit,I worked like everyuone else.My only fault was to get addicted to H n that made me a criminal in itself.I understand the clinics predicament tho n they're doin lots of good I s'pose.I'm sorry,I must 've got out on the wrong side of bed!This is a very long winded way of asking your professional opinion-is Sub addictive?

    LOL Loop:)
     
  2. doc

    doc Member

    Yes, Subutex/Suboxone/Buprenex are addictive. Withdrawal symptoms vary in nature and duration. Many adjunctive medications can be used towards the end of a taper i.e. clonidine patches, wellbutrin, neurontin, remeron, etc.etc. really too many to list. Not everyone has a tough withdrawal. Last week one of my patients discontinued a 3 week taper at 8mg.(she started on 24 mg. for a very large oxycontin habit). Just stopped cold at 8mg.(I believe she was at day 10 of her taper) and did fine. This is curious, but can happen. I think she felt that I was trying to prolong her treatment, when actually the reverse is true-I like to get people off this stuff ASAP.

    It is irresponsible of me to make drug recommendations without doing a thorough history and physical. Your doc sounds uninformed (I'm trying to be polite).

    shooting from the hip: insist on a slow taper, things can get uncomfortable below 2 mg. Also, you may wish to bump up the Effexor to at least double what you're on now, I often have people on 75 mg. 3x daily. As a very gross generalization, it is usually my more mellow, sedate patients who tolerate Effexor, and NOT my anxious patients.

    you will find a wealth of information on this site regarding different peoples experiences coming off of Bupe. best of luck.
     
  3. Bup4pain

    Bup4pain Well-Known Member

    Doc... I think the key with her easier discontinuation was due to her only being on the buprenorphine for only 10 days. ;)

    I also felt it was easy to stop W A Y back then... I did not develop a dependence until later on. Dose and DURATION are a major factor.

    "Your doc sounds uninformed (I'm trying to be polite)."

    Ahhh, come on Doc, you can say "Dumb Ass" too :D [:eek:)]

    We gotta have some fun here LOL ;)
     
  4. ashley80

    ashley80 Well-Known Member

    Doc, yep, I jumped off a fairly high bupe dose (12-14 mgs) after only 6 days, then took a 2 mg dose day 8 or 9 and a 1 mg dose the next day. No symptoms from the bupe WD, altho' I am still, after a month off bupe and 5+ weeks off hydro, having lingering, but mild WD symptoms - I'm thinking they are from the hydro and NOT the bupe. Just my two cents. In retro, I am kinda glad I did it this way, altho it was a bit of a rough ride w cravings and depression when I jumped off the bupe. I was VERY determined tho'.
    LOL, my doc was a tad, um, 'uninformed' too. Never offered me a thing but the subox. Wish I had gone to you!!
    Ashley
    LOL, John, :D
     
  5. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

    The more I read the more annoyed I get!:(My boyf says get him to put his guarantee of no W/Ds in writing n then sue his ass off if I get sick!!!But then Lincoln wouldn't have an addiction Dr at all.

    I called my nurse just now but she's already gone home n now its weekend so she'll call me back on Monday.I don't know if she has any power to change my prescription though-I've a horrible feeling I'm stuck like this for the next month.

    I'm still clean but I just feel so fed up that I'd love to just go n get f**kd....but I won't.I'll get my coat on n walk the 4miles there n back to the chemist :( I can't believe how far you have to go for scripts in the US,makes me glad for little ol' england.

    Even if their Dr's are @*#~!

    Thanks so much tho Doc-I hope you don't mind if I show them your post?Well I'm gonna print all the related posts n give them to my nurse if people don't mind?

    Thanks for the added info about Effexor.I see my normal Dr Monday so I'll mention it to him.

    IOU1
    LOL Loop:D
     
  6. rikaard

    rikaard Well-Known Member

    Loop[8D]
    Hi girl how ya doing[?]
    what u gota remember that there aint no such thing as a compleatly pain fee detox, yes subutex is addictive but if u use it fairly short term say 1-3 months then u shouldnt have much of a problem stepping off.
    My mate was on it 3 months and he said he was a bit cold and that he didnt sleep too weel for a week but that really is a walk in the park compared to most other treatments.
    Subutex may not be perfect and its not a pain free as u may of been told but its better than anythinbg else around.
    Dont get yourself in a state over things that have yet to pass and if your Dr wants u to stay on longer than u wnat say f**k it and just taper yourself.
    Remember NO pain NO gain, a lot of it is in the mind approach it with a positive attitude and u will be OK.
    You have done SO WELL up to now dont get hung up on the future take it a day at a time.

    Im not going to say much more cause I feel Like $hit at the momemnt:(, IM SO cold its untrue, but Im up in Manchester nad IM just doing it, Ive got my head around it and there aint NO STOPPING ME NOW, I will be CLEAN soon and so can YOU:)

    Yakecare look after yourself and DONT BE hard on yourself LOOK HOW FAR U HAVE COME, keep it up girl:)
     
  7. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rik-you're right,I'm just getting my knickers in a twist over something that hasn't happened yet!;)It was my Dr's attitude that just got me so mad-anything I had to say he just dismissed cos I was their in my smakhead role.

    I will breathe deeply n coolly decide what *I* want to do.I am on supervised dosage n the only way to taper myself is to dissolve what I want n swallow the rest.I know its dodgy but finding out you can sell 8mg for a ?5 made me stop n think.I won't say anymore as I think its disrespectful here.

    Its cold over here too :( but if I do anything then I'm too hot-you know the routine.My fingers are cold typing this n I'm only sat in my kitchen!

    I'm off to walk my dog-he's really been my saviour through all this.Whenever I get too mad or too down or ANYTHING I just get walking n he cheers me up!:)He's a big German Shepherd*Rottweiler n he's gorgeous.He used to belong to my friend but he got locked up fpr trying to do over a chemist amongst other things so I've had Shiva now for 3yrs.My friend left him with his ex n she abused him so bad-when I got there he was skeletal,bald,sat in his own mess,starving,coveredin sores n permanently muzzled to stop him biting himself (huge flea infestation).I took one look n brought him home with me!It never made him mean tho-he's so soft but then so protective of me.I used to take him to score n he stopped me being done over many times!When I'd get my hit kit out he'd look so disappointed in me-he hated it n used to get upset if I was too f@@kd.Imagine my poor boyf trying to slap me round the face n bring me round after I've gone over n my dogs trying to attack him!...I'm SOOO glad that's not my life anymore!:D:D

    Thinkin of you up norf!;)
    LOL Loop
     
  8. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rik-you're right,I'm just getting my knickers in a twist over something that hasn't happened yet!;)It was my Dr's attitude that just got me so mad-anything I had to say he just dismissed cos I was their in my smakhead role.

    I will breathe deeply n coolly decide what *I* want to do.I am on supervised dosage n the only way to taper myself is to dissolve what I want n swallow the rest.I know its dodgy but finding out you can sell 8mg for a ?5 made me stop n think.I won't say anymore as I think its disrespectful here.

    Its cold over here too :( but if I do anything then I'm too hot-you know the routine.My fingers are cold typing this n I'm only sat in my kitchen!

    I'm off to walk my dog-he's really been my saviour through all this.Whenever I get too mad or too down or ANYTHING I just get walking n he cheers me up!:)He's a big German Shepherd*Rottweiler n he's gorgeous.He used to belong to my friend but he got locked up fpr trying to do over a chemist amongst other things so I've had Shiva now for 3yrs.My friend left him with his ex n she abused him so bad-when I got there he was skeletal,bald,sat in his own mess,starving,coveredin sores n permanently muzzled to stop him biting himself (huge flea infestation).I took one look n brought him home with me!It never made him mean tho-he's so soft but then so protective of me.I used to take him to score n he stopped me being done over many times!When I'd get my hit kit out he'd look so disappointed in me-he hated it n used to get upset if I was too f@@kd.Imagine my poor boyf trying to slap me round the face n bring me round after I've gone over n my dogs trying to attack him!...I'm SOOO glad that's not my life anymore!:D:D

    Thinkin of you up norf!;)
    LOL Loop
     
  9. Loop

    Loop Well-Known Member

    Oh god what am I DOING?!Sorry about that-I'm sure I don't post enough as it is!At least it gives me chance to say:

    GO RIK!:D[^][8D][:p]:)You sound determined!I'll be thinking of you.
    All my love Loop
     
  10. sleepless

    sleepless Well-Known Member

    Hiya Loopy (Hannah) :)

    Ok, so yer in a tiff about something that *might* happen later on down the road, I can relate to that...But I want you to bare in mind and remember babygirl, what is really & truly important RIGHT NOW, what's going on at the present time...Keep focused on TODAY ONLY, don't worry about tomorrow, you'll cross that bridge when you come to it...So let's you & I take care of today and keep all our energy focused on the here and now, and when tomorrow finds us, we will face it together and make the choices and decisions we have to when the time comes to make them, k? So let's just chill on the *what if's* and the *when* for now and do what we've gotta do for today babygirl...I am 100% sure and more than confident in your determination to live clean and sober now that you've gotten a taste of it and for it that *when* the time comes you will do everything you need to do and doors will open for you that have been closed that will allow you to get what you need to get for yourself that will ensure that you stay on the straight & narrow path to soberity...

    So here again babygirl, let's concentrate on today, and worry with the future when it is facing us...You've got me along with everyone else here on this forum backing you up, and standing by you...And I can only speak for myself when saying that I am and will do everything in my power to help you and make sure you get what you need to keep you on the right track..Even if that means me flying there to the UK, or sending you a plane ticket and you flying here to the U.S., I care that much about what happens to you and what is happening to you now that I would be willing to do that and that's the God's truth...I have told you this many times before, but will tell you again just as a reminder...You are a bright young woman, with a wonderful future ahead of you as an addiction counselor, you take all the things that you've been through and are going through now in stride and use them for your own benefit later on in life to help someone else...Soak up as much info as you can while facing and going through this experience yourself so you will be better equipped to help someone later in life that is struggling with the things you are struggling with now...Try to keep in the back of your mind that nothing just happens in life for no reason, I myself don't believe in coincident...I firmly believe everything that happens to us happens for a reason, even if we don't have a clue what the reason is..So the things that you are facing now and have yet to face, use them to your own advantage to in return share them with someone else later in life that happens to cross your path...And trust me, this will happen, you mark my words and see that I have told you the truth..

    Ok, this post is not or has not turned out to be what I had intended it to, LoL...I guess I need to hush up and stop rambling on for now...Loopy, I need to e-mail you sometime and share some of my feelings with you instead of taking up space doing it here...Yer doing great girl, I'm so proud of you, so you keep going and don't look back...Keep my hand always close by yourside with your hand in mine and we'll keep walking together babygirl :)

    Rok, I just wanted to add a lil something for you my friend...I know things seem a lil bleak at the moment, but hold on for another day, tomorrow is a new day full of new hopes & dreams...You've gotta lot of life to live and a lot of love to give, so you hang tough and stay strong...I'm here for you buddy, you are in my thoughts & prayers :)

    Take Care & God Bless :)
     
  11. rikaard

    rikaard Well-Known Member

    sleepless:)Hi

    Thanksfor your kind words of encoragement, I may feel a little bad on the physical side:( of things but im getting there,
    But mentally I feel great the fog is clearing and im feeling better day by day.
    I am 100% commited now I have the right attitude and NO ONE is holding me back.
    Infact i went out last nite,I didnt want to go but when i got there I had a really god time and I felt at home and everyone made me feel welcome and no one judged me.
    I shold of known better than to worry over things that have yet to of passed.
    So over all I may still feel cold and a bit ill, im not sleeping too well but i will get over that and ive got just a weeks stash of benzos/sleepers to help "IF" I need them, anyway IM SURE I WILL BE OK.
    I have the help of everyone here we are all like a family and we all help each other, even two lines from u brightens up me day when things aint going so well.

    I hope everything is going well with u , u always sound SO positive and u have so many words of wisdom, maybe u should be a thrapist;),

    Oh and by the way if u have an overwheming amout of Air Miles;) send mr some, I havnt been to the US, apart from Detroit and Buffalo for ages,
    so send me a ticket. first class of course;)
    Anyway thanks again for the feed back take care and look afteryourself.
    L8R Rik:)
     
  12. sleepless

    sleepless Well-Known Member

    Hi Rik :)

    Wow, yer such a big sweetheart ;) ...Thanks so much for the compliments, I'm so glad when people take the time to let me know some lil something I have said has either helped or cheered them up in some small way...It makes me feel as if my own drug addiction was'nt in vain...I'm laffin @ the therapist idea, honestly it has crossed my mind a time or two...But since I'm so close to finishing up my computer engineering degree, I'm not looking to start all over at the beginning...It has taken me almost 8 years to complete a 4 year degree [xx(] ...But hey, you never know, where ever God leads me is where I'll go :), even if it means another 8 years to finish up a 4 year degree, LoL...

    I'm so glad to see things coming together for you, and you getting yourself out and enjoying life...We ALL know how hard it is to start anew and figure out a new a different way of doing things when we are'nt high but are stone cold sober...But you are giving it your best shot and atleast trying, so for that you deserve a HUGE {{{Hug}}} and a pat on the back :) ...

    Life has never been the big bowl of cheeries everyone tends to make it out to be, especially for people like us, *junkies*...But we can make the best of it and prove people that think bad of us wrong, DEAD wrong infact by doing what we know it our hearts is right and walking the ever so straight & narrow, constantly keeping our guard up and watching for those triggers that have been known to set us ALL off...At first it seems to feel a bit strange, but after you keep at it for awhile it becomes like second nature...You do it and don't even realize that yer doing it...For me myself, triggers were/are certain places I would drive in town (yeah I know, weird huh?) but slowly but surely I re-trained my brain and I don't knowingly take a different route, I just do it...For a long time I had to sit before I'd leave my house and plan out which direction I was going to drive in in order to get where I needed to go, but now it's normal for me and I don't even think about it...You too will find yourself doing the same things and look back and think to yourself *WOW, I have an illness, but I'm kickin butt and getting better by cutting certain things outta my life* ...The days and nights will slowly return to normal, and I promise that eventually there will come a day that at the end of the day you will realize that you have'nt even thought about getting high, and boy oh boy, that's a great feeling and encourages you all the more [8D]

    I don't have any flier miles built up yet, but when I do I'll be glad to transfer then to you and send you a plane ticket to the U.S., OH and first class of course, nothing but the best for my friends & pals always ;)

    Take Care & God Bless :)
     
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