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Bupreneorphine Sub Forum Title Information

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by josie, May 5, 2007.

  1. sudokudee

    sudokudee Well-Known Member

    Ratchett, I don't think you are the mere handful of victims. I suspect there are many more victims than most can imagine and there will be thousands more in the future.

    But I have read your posts on that other site and you have been nothing but gracious in providing information. And over time, I have seen some there beginning to listen to you and to promote your information. It won't change everyone overnight but it's a start.

    Like mic said, it's how you present the information. It's unfortunate that much of the information is not pleasant to hear. It's the truth that matters and the intent to help people.


    Dee--off MMT 9-12-06
  2. Ratch

    Ratch Well-Known Member

    Hey Dee,
    Yeah what I meant to say was we are a small number that is outspoken. (I thought I said it that way?) When I first encoutered the other site they were in full denial of almost ANY wd symptoms at all. Some of them still blame sub wd's on the previous drugs we used... I just wonder why people dont usually complain about months/years of PAWS after H/oxy/or hydro.. As a matter of fact some of us experienced problems and were not on any other drugs at all or for any significant amount of time. Some day the truth will be printed in black and white, undeniable, and people will still defend it.

  3. sudokudee

    sudokudee Well-Known Member

    Ratch, I have nothing but admiration for your patience over there. I tried to follow in your footsteps over there, but honestly, the ones on small habits being encouraged that they would "adjust" to their whopper sub doses threatened to send me over the edge.
    And I feared I could not remain as gracious as you have, so I have stayed away for awhile. I would rather try to be magnanimous and if I can't do that, I will stay away until I can. But I do admire you.


    Dee--off MMT 9-12-06
  4. Pamela7030

    Pamela7030 Well-Known Member

    Dee and everyone,

    I just got back from a 3rd Step meeting. You get what you need when you need it. I DO want to say, I never said anything about her husband and his cancer. That was another poster. I just wanted to clear that up. I called her controlling and her son a drug addict. I was controlling too, trying to get her to understand. I will look back at the post, I was angry, but I don't think that I said much more than that. I have a child of my own, she is 25 now, but she was also addicted to opiates. Hell we did them together. She is clean now, through a methadone clinic, even though I didn't agree with the treatment at that time. I am so very proud of her. I go to many meetings and I do not know anyone else, around here, who has successfully come off of methodone. So I do understand having a child in addiction and God knows I understand withdrawl for myself and my child. On top of that I have guilt for her being there. I was angry for some of the same reasons as Ratchett. I just should have handled it differently. Now I realize that, but God knows I said nothing about her husband and his cancer. I guess the way it was put in your post, I did worry that others thought that I said that. Anyway, I learned alot in the meeting tonight. I understand that it is not in my hands. I can only control MY recovery.


    "Reach for the stars...You will at least end up among the clouds"
    Share your experience, strength, and hope with another and see the miracles transform your life!
  5. sudokudee

    sudokudee Well-Known Member

    Hi Pamela,

    Honey, don't worry. I know you didn't say that. And honestly, I've said some things in the past here I feel badly about now. I'm sure I'd cringe if I had to read them again.

    I've learned alot over the time I've been here about forum life. Heck, I got involved in a heated political discussion and ended up arguing with some friends here, like Tidefan, that I felt terrible about later. And I've gotten carried-away a time or two and Arlene has had to yank me out of some holes I got myself into.

    So, I've had to ask myself why I let myself get so angry. And defensive. I've seen a huge amount of defensiveness on some of the pro-maintenance sites and think I know why they're defensive. But in all fairness, I then have to question why I would do it myself.

    I want to be happy being clean. I don't want to get angry if others don't agree with my choices. I have no reason to get defensive, really, if I'm happy with the choice I made.


    Dee--off MMT 9-12-06
  6. Pamela7030

    Pamela7030 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Dee!


    "Reach for the stars...You will at least end up among the clouds"
    Share your experience, strength, and hope with another and see the miracles transform your life!
  7. HToutlaws

    HToutlaws Well-Known Member

    Usually your first reaction is the honest reaction.

    If someone offends you, walk away, respond with the same, or walk away with and hit a prayer book. Whatever works for that individual.

    If I had to respond all over again, I would of left my initial post.


    Goodbye Opiates....FOREVER!
  8. Bup4pain

    Bup4pain Well-Known Member

    (cross posted)
    Josie... I recommend you TRY to find a book called: "Mind of an Addict" by Irving Mace also known as Irving "R. J. " Mace. He had a column in a news paper called "Ask R.J." (Recovering Junkie) and read his book.

    I usually don't recommend any books but I think it may help you some.

    If this guy can be Clean and sober w/o opiate replacement than really anyone can. He is back to "normal" after many years of extreme opiate abuse.

    He IS able to feel joy and be happy. He NEVER took Bupe/Sub, and he absolutely took methadone. ...

    I have seen many people make full recoveries from full agonist opiates, but have seen MANY who have *NOT* been able to fully recover from bupe/sub dependence .

    You say GOD brought your son this savior drug... are you SURE it was the good guy from above?? Any chance it was the "other" guy? You know the one from down there (looking down into the flames)....

    I think you have bought the suboxone hype "hook line and sinker". Your exposure to it is from the treatment center and the MD's who want your Son on it.

    Speaking as a person who *has* worked in the field of addiction, and worked in an inpatient locked DETOX facility. (DETOX, 14 day and 30 day programs) I am quite familiar with the DOGMA, recovery "speak", and the truth.

    I am not an MD but have formal addictions training. I have been around this addictions and disease model world for longer than I care to admit.

    You are talking like a newbee... Parroting (spewing, regurgitating) dogma/modality addictions speak. Just like any parent you are concerned and are sucking up info like a sponge. Unfortunately you have no real idea what you are talking about. You have no true understanding...

    Ask yourself who is going to fund a study on the negative aspects of bupe? Then ask yourself why most of the negative studies and reports have been scrubbed from the net?

    What are they hiding? LOL.... I know. So do a few others...

    This site and "Ratch's" site are real gold mines of good info.

    If you truly care about your Son you owe it to him (and yourself) to make the MOST of the info that is here instead of disagreeing and arguing with "us". Why not glean what is here that we offer you? All it can do is help, and maybe even save him from some horrors later on in his path as an addict, recovering or not.

    I truly wish you the best... But more so your son (LOL since he IS one of us)

    Why not have him come here on his own?

    You really do not even qualify to talk here in MY opinion.

    To parrot a AA saying.. Why don't you take the cotton out of your ears and stuff it in you mouth and listen to some of the true experts here. You may even learn something that could PREVENT your son some misery, pain and suffering.

    Sorry to be so blunt, but after holding my tongue and reading most of your posts I no longer could contain myself.

    Been there, done that, wore out the tee shirt.
  9. MindofAnAddict

    MindofAnAddict New Member

    I know this is way late of a response, but I just put a website up so that people could find the book. Please visit Mind of An Addict by R.J. Mace or https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mind-of-An-Addict/298001380398367. :smile:

  10. StuckonSubs

    StuckonSubs Well-Known Member

    Boy I'd love to know how her son is doing now... Wonder if he is still taking the sub without any problems. Or if she still thinks the sub cured her sons addiction.
    How can an opiate addiction be cured with more opiates? That just doesn't seem possible to me. Maybe you are putting a bandaid on the opiate addiction. But, to me, her son is still an addict because he is still addicted to an opioid. Plain and simple.
    How can anyone say that they are no longer an addict when they still need to take a substance that their body is clearly addicted to. If he's not an opiate addict, then tell him to stop taking the Suboxone and tell us how he feels a few days/week later...

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