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36 Hours Off Sub & Not WDing Yet

Discussion in 'Detoxing From Buprenorphine/Subutex/Suboxone' started by squashgirl, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. squashgirl

    squashgirl New Member

    Hi guys! I had a 90 mg perc habit for a little under a year. I got sick of all everything that comes along with drugs but didn't have the time to sit around and WD so I got subs. For the past ~2,3 months I've been taking around 2 mgs of sub (I took more than that when I first started the subs but tapered quickly because I was scared of this exact situation) every 24 hours.

    Now I've run out of subs and can't seem to find anymore. I only have 1 mg left which I am saving for absolute emergency. The last thing I had was 1 mg over 36 hours ago. My question is: I don't really seem to be WDing yet. I have a few tinges here and there, but I've been sleeping just fine (a year ago I would've been a mess after 12 hrs) and I feel like its mostly just mental.

    My question is.. because I've only been on a 1 or 2 mg dose for so long, is it possible I won't be detoxing too bad/at all? If it hasn't started in 36 hours (and this is the longest I've ever gone without a sub/perc) when will it? I mean, how long can 1-2mg of suboxen even stay in my system? Is it any smarter/easier to continue to try to find subs and taper down even more (.25, .50) or is withdrawal a thing you just have to face no matter what, so just suck it up?

    Thanks for your help everyone & good luck to y'all.
     
  2. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    It is VERY possible that you will not experience any hardcore withdrawals. The withdrawals from Sub are not as intense as with Percs and other short acting opiates they just last much longer if you experience them.

    One thing you need to understand is that Sub has a half-life of around 37.5 hours. This means that 37.5 hours after taking Sub, 1/2 of it is still active in your system. This stacks up. For example, you take 2mg the first day. 24 hours later you still have around 1mg active in your system. You take another 2mg and now you have 3mg active in your system. After another 24 hours you take another 2mg and now you have 3.5 mg active in your system. This is a very simplistic explanation -- just realize that you have way more Sub active in your system than what you may think. This same thing applies when you stop Sub...It takes awhile for it work its way out of your system.

    Feeling OK now is a very good sign but keep in mind that you may feel a bit worse as your body eliminates what is left in your system.

    BTW-Keeping an emergency dose around is pretty close to the worse idea ever. Flush it. Good chance that it will trigger you back to opiates if you take it.

    Good luck and the FEAR of withdrawals is way worse than actual withdrawals ;)
     
  3. Tapering

    Tapering Member

    FreakedOut - You seem very knowledgeable. I'm on Buprenorphine. I just tapered to .25mg/day from .5mg/per day. I would've tapered more slowly, but I only have tablets & they're turning into crumbs when I cut the 2mg tablets. I'm trying to find films from the pharmacy, but unable so far.

    I've been stabilized at .5mg/day for a few months & I understand your example of stacking. I've been on the .25mg/day for 4 days. The depression is roaring through me once I tapered to .25mg... do you know how long the depression remains?

    My outlook on life has me scared, i.e. career/ school/ money/ I'm behind other people my age group, etc. I'm not taking anxiety meds. Buprenorphine is the only med I'm taking.

    No one knows I'm tapering down so I don't have anyone to ask these questions.

    Thank you.
     
  4. dumbas

    dumbas Active Member

    I understand your situation. I had to keep my taper a secret too. This site has helped so much. I am off subs now 30 days. The first week was fine. I slept etc. It was the 2nd and 3rd week that I struggled. But now I feel fine except for not sleeping well. Makes allot of emotions, crazy thoughts...for me. But if you want to get off the stuff, this is the way. Try and exercise, just walking helps. BTW, I had to flush my little "pieces" and two boxes of subs. No reservations. I found myself taking a piece after three days when I started feeling crappy. Had to start over. That's how powerful this drug is. Mind you, these are my experiences. I pray you have been fortunate enough to not have to go through this...but it can be done. See this site. So many have done it. Good luck, keep us posted.
     
  5. coues1

    coues1 Well-Known Member

    Tapering,

    This process affects everyone differently. I have learned that you can't put a timeline on the symptoms such as restlessness, fatigue, insomnia, depression and yes, a euphoric happiness.

    All I can talk about is my experience. I went 6mg and tapered for 5 months down to .25mg. I did two weeks of .5mg and about two weeks of .25mg then stopped. I had mild WD's my last month of tapering. I then had 2 weeks of insomnia, fatigue and abdominal cramping. Basically felt like a flu. By week 3 I was so happy to be free I just did not care about the WD. The insomnia sucks but I was free.

    I found the success stories have one 4 common factors. A strong desire to stop, a positive attitude, exercise/diet and support. You will go through an emoitional rollercoaster.

    It is worth it and all of us here are ready to be your support.

    Be well and keep getting well.
     
  6. rsmith46

    rsmith46 Active Member

    A perc habit you should have just quit cold turkey since they are short acting. Sub withgraw takes 3 or 4 days to hit and you weren't taking enough long enough to go through withdraw
     
  7. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    Hey Tapering-

    The best bet on a slow taper is to keep dose reductions around 10% at a time. When you cut 50% of your dose in one shot your are going to have symptoms like you are experiencing.

    So how do you do an accurate taper with Suboxone tablets to get 10% reductions and/or go to a very low dose? (Hint---Reckitt doesn't want you to do this. The smallest dose being 2mg was a deliberate move by them and their lobbyists. They wanted to make getting off of it as difficult as possible.)

    What I did was a slow taper to .025 mg per day. I went to every other day and then every third day. Finally forgot to take it and a week later realized that I hadn't taken any in about a week. Little to no acute withdrawals!

    I used the liquid dilution taper. Google "suboxone liquid dilution taper" and you will find a bunch of info out there. All you need is some distilled water, a 1mg oral syringe, and a 5mg oral syringe. Many pharmacies will just give away the oral syringes for free if you ask. Walgreens did for me.

    Some simple examples of the math:

    Lets say you want to accurately split a 2mg tablet into .25mg doses. I found that the ideal amount of liquid to hold under my tongue was .5ml. So their are 8 .25mg doses in one tablet which equates to dissolving the tablet in 4ml of distilled water. Just dissolve a tablet in 4ml and measure out .5ml with the small oral syringe for a daily dose. You just hold it under your tongue like the tablet. If you take it to very small doses you will want to use 90% distilled water and 10% vodka or the like to act as an antibacterial. When I went down to .025mg, that was *80* doses from a 2mg tablet and it would develop visible bacteria after a month or so, even kept in the fridge.

    Above is just a general intro....Much info on this method is available with a google search and I will answer any questions if you decide to pursue this route. It is not for everybody, but it definitely worked for me. (I have been off Suboxone and all opiates since 6/24/2006.)

    Good luck....I found that having a plan and sticking to it is what helped me finally get to the other side.

    PS--I have no clue if this will work with the film strips. They weren't around when I was on Sub.
     
  8. Tapering

    Tapering Member

    Thank you... I'm going to pursue the liquid taper. Would you explain why this route is not for everyone? What do I need to be aware of?

    I really wish I did not drop 50%.

    Am I going to incur PAWS longer than I would have had I tapered by 10%?
    How long did you experience PAWS after stopping?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  9. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    Hi Tapering,

    What I really meant is that no one method of getting clean works for everybody. Lots of different routes. The liquid dilution taper was what worked for me but I would never make a blanket statement that it is the answer for everybody. We all have our own challenges and unique situations.

    If you are still on Sub, you are not experiencing PAWS. PAWS happens after you have stopped opiates and gotten through the acute withdrawals.

    I cannot really say whether I experienced PAWS or didn't. After stopping Sub I started to get healthier in general and felt much better about 9 to 12 months afterwards. Maybe part of this was PAWS or maybe it was just poor health in general. I went down to .025mg so I think I gave my body the chance to let the half-life unwind without the shock effect of jumping off of a higher dose.

    One thing I will add is that doing a deliberate taper (liquid or otherwise) is a proactive. Researching and making a well thought out plan is proactive.

    Many detoxes are reactive....A panic response to some sort of crisis be it legal, family, spouse, job, loss of drug availability, etc.

    I have noticed a trend that proactive detoxes are usually more successful than the reactive ones ;) Part of it probably that being proactive means you have made the decision and are willing to do what is necessary instead of just reacting to whatever the current crisis is.
     
  10. Tapering

    Tapering Member

    FreakedOut, thank you for your wisdom. I began the liquid taper today. I put .5mg of Buprenorphine in 1ml & squirted .5ml & saving the remaining .5ml for tomorrow.

    It feels much stronger today. Not sure if that's normal.

    I'm tapering at 10%, but how many days should be between each taper?
     
  11. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    Tapering,

    I don't think I have the answer on the interval for dropping your dose. My *average* was every 2 weeks. It seems like 1 mg to .5 was the part I took longer on and then sped up the reductions after that. I would say go by how you feel. It isn't a race. Except the kind won by the slow & steady. This is just my opinion/theory, but I think taking several months to get to zero, giving the stacked half-life time to "unwind" is the key to maximum reduction of withdrawal symptoms for those of us on Sub long term. People metabolize differently and the half-life of the drug in one person is not the same as in the next. That is why the go by feel thing may be important as opposed to an exact timing schedule on reductions. The risk is taking more time than you really need -- but I think this is something a person should only go through one time and some of the most important things in life are accomplished with patience and perseverance.

    I have heard the analogy on this forum about either ripping the band-aid off or a slowly removing it. Theoretically, the bandage can be peeled slow enough as to cause no discomfort. Maybe this analogy holds a bit of truth ;)
     
  12. Tapering

    Tapering Member

    Would you crunch these numbers?

    I've been putting .5mg of Buprenorphine into .9ml & squirting .4ml per day.

    How many mgs. do you come up with?
     
  13. spring

    spring Administrator

    Worth repeating!
     
  14. freakedout

    freakedout Moderator

    Hi Tapering,

    .4 divided by .9 = .44444444.......
    .5 times .4444444.... = .22222222

    Rounding up you are taking about .223 mg right now.

    I found the easiest way to do it is to start with a known amount that is easy to cut like 1mg or .5mg and add MORE solution to decrease the doses.
     
  15. Tapering

    Tapering Member

    Thank you. That's what I came up with, as well.

    Today, I put .5mg into 1ml of water & squirted .4ml under my tongue. That equates to .2mg of Buprenorphine.
     

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