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  1. #1
    shar586's Avatar
    shar586 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Detox with methadone

    Ive been smoking heroin for over 15 years, and started when I was 13 years old. A so called 'friend' gave me my first smoke, and from then on my demise was ineviatable, the rest is history. I have wanted to get off heroin for a very long time, although due to career and other general issues, did not want to do so officially. Unfortunately it is not possible to enter rehab or get a script annonymously, because they need your medical records. Without going into too much detail, for the first time in my whole life I was (truly) 100% ready to stop. When I got home I purchased some methadone and began my detox. This is now my second day.

    The Final Chapter;

    Finally . . . it is here
    clear in view
    - as I foresaw

    Demise, comfortably at home

    It is here, and here it stays
    A future told now set in stone

    My dark curtain draws
    its shadow cold and sharp
    - as it pierces my heart
    with its final jesting remark . . .

    . . ."forever the end is nigh"

    Retreat;

    Darkness wraps its cold veil
    around my bleeding soul
    Pain my only link to life -
    thrusting upon my thoughts
    - as I slowly retreat into sweet denial

    Cut myself upon your tongue
    as you foresake me your daughter

    I foresake thee, my pain my only retreat
    - I shall bleed
    Last edited by shar586; 11-21-2012 at 05:30 AM.

  2. #2
    jdude's Avatar
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Welcome to ODR Shar.
    Congrats on the focus towards recovery!

    Since you're in the UK and did'nt go with any lofexadine (Britoflex) ..what's your plan with the methadone?
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  3. #3
    shar586's Avatar
    shar586 is offline Senior Member
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Hi jdude, thanks for your reply. I have no idea about the options that are available to me, and have never come accross or heard of lofexadine (britoflex). I assume its a opioid, although you'll have to correct me. I purchase my medication un-officially, therefore have limited access to certain medication. I have access to subutex, codiene (df's), tramadol, and valium. My plan is as follows, I have worked out that I have roughly 5 - 6 weeks of methadone (or physeptone 1mg/1ml) and have a weekly supply arranged on top of that. On day 1 (29th) I had 30mls only, at 20.15hrs, (following smoking heroin that morning), but had to take a further 30mls on top of that due to persisting symptoms before bed. This left me restless all night, and woke up in a pretty bad way. On day 2 (30th) i took 60mls at 10.30hrs, and had to take an additional 30mls later on that day around teatime, hoping that 90mls in total would suffice. Unfortunately this was not the case, and I had to take a further 20mls at 04.00hrs due to my restless limbs at night .Today, which is day 3 (01st) I havent had anything yet, and plan on taking 90mls in one go, as been advised that taking installments throughout the day is not a good idea. Thereafter I hope to continue taking 90mls each day until ready to start cutting down. I would also like any advice regarding taking additional medication on top of methadone, to help me limit the amount I take, as I am under no illusion as to how hard methadone is to get off. Would this help or hinder? Any advice you may have would be highly appreciated, and thank you for your interest.:)
    Last edited by jdude; 10-17-2010 at 08:54 PM.

  4. #4
    jdude's Avatar
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    As you've quickly learned, the methadone is a rough road to travel.

    The Lofexadine is cousin to our clonidine. But it is intended for detox purposes.
    You can find some info on the clonidine here:
    heroin forum; The BEST of the BEST Links and Stickies
    or
    http://www.britlofex.co.uk/

    I don't have first hand experience in the UK. But it seems the methadone was the suggested detox method. Seems protocol has shifted to either a sub or Britoflex detox. The members here at ODR from across the pond that used Brotoflex (lofexadine) have reported great results...better then our clonidine.

    It won't eliminate the WDs...just minimize them to a tolerable level.
    I havn't talked with him in several months, but you can do a search on Ozboz (oliver) and email him thru ODR. Or do a search and read some of his posts/threads.

    The codiene (df's), tramadol, and valium may not be the best option. But if memory serves me, the dfs are OTC there...and vary in strength and mixtures.

    Basically the acute stage will be over in less then a week....if you don't add any opiates to the mix.
    Last edited by jdude; 10-01-2010 at 01:38 PM.
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  5. #5
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Hi shar586,
    Good luck on the detox. But if you want my advice, I think there's a couple things wrong here.

    First off, for a detox from heroin, you should go maybe a week or ten days, 14 at the most. Methadone clinics like to put you on a high dose for a couple months and then bring you down and all that does is get you more addicted and make to drop off that much harder.

    Also, where and in what form are you getting that methadone? Frankly, I don't believe you have what you think you do because 30 mgs is the usual beginning dose for a detox. A resonable detox from heroin would be 30, 30, 25, 25, 20, 20, 15, 15, 10, 10, 5, 5. 12 days, or even 30, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 5, that's 7 days.

    Unless you've been addicted to high dose methadone recently, those are normal detox schedules. Like I said, I can't believe you're really taking 90 mgs that would get you really "straight". If you're taking it and still feeling withdrawals it must be watered down.

    Believe me I know, I used to buy methadone bottles many years ago in NYC and I never knew what I would get. It's not a good way to detox, and really, taking high dose methadone for six weeks will get you in a worse spot than you are now,

    Dave

  6. #6
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    i detoxed from a pretty hefty heroin habit (~25 bags/day) using methadone for 5 days. i split the dose in half every day....and by day 6....i was physically detoxed.

    problem was....i couldn't stay that way. physically i no longer needed dope...mentally, I did. I was convinced that once i got myself detoxed, that i'd be fine. took me many years to learn that the physical detox was but a minute part of what i needed to do to get/stay clean.

    cheers
    janice

  7. #7
    shar586's Avatar
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Hi peacenik/dave, thanks for your input. You raise a good point, I dont know for sure if some of the methadone is watered down. Half of my supply did come directly via a pharmacy from a trusted source, although the bottles Ive been using over the last couple of days were aquired via a third party (which is not a good thing!). Your point may be further validated by the fact that I did not take 90mls as I planned today, but 60mls instead, which has kept me feeling pretty well up to now, and probably will till tomorrow (day 4 of detox). Therefore to be absolutely sure I will take only the methadone aquired via a safe source over the next few days. My partner is also doing a detox at the moment, officially via a script, (supported by a councillor), and he is currently taking 120mls daily, down from 135mls when he started in mid August. Although the councillor did attempt initially to start him on 20mls in the morning, and a further 20mls at night, although he ended up having to source additional methadone unofficially to cope. The methadone Im taking is 1mg in every 1ml, is this universal? I'm confused, I dont seem to be doing as well as I thought. :o Based on the fact that I will be okay tonight till tomorrow with 60mls, do you think I should decrease further tomorrow? And if so by how much? Are there any tips for over the counter remedies I could use to ease my limb disscomfort?

    Hi Sluggo/ janice, thank you for your post, you have also given me pause for thought, as I cannot believe how well you did, considering that you also had a large habit. To completely come off methadone in 5 days is amazing. Is this perhaps because your habit was not long term, as I cannot imagine to be able to do what you did. How much did you take on day 1?
    Last edited by shar586; 11-21-2012 at 05:33 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Hi jdude, I found your links very useful, and indeed do see the advantages in taking lofexidine. It seems too good to be true really. Im very pleased that you have highlighted its existence. Am I right in thinking that it would also aid my attempt to reduce methadone? Or would it need to be my primary source of detoxing? My theory is, that if lofexidine doesnt deal with all the WD symptoms, taking it along side a very low dose of methadone, may make my journey a little smoother?
    Last edited by shar586; 11-21-2012 at 05:36 AM.

  9. #9
    Sluggo's Avatar
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Quote Originally Posted by shar586 View Post
    Hi Sluggo/ janice, thank you for your post, you have also given me pause for thought, as I cannot believe how well you did, considering that you also had a large habit. To completely come off methadone in 5 days is amazing. Is this perhaps because your habit was not long term, as I cannot imagine to be able to do what you did. How much did you take on day 1?
    I was not coming off methadone...i was coming off heroin. I only used methadone for 5 days...to get off heroin. I had been shooting dope for about 5 or 6 years. first day...I took 80 mgs. 2nd day...i took 40, 3rd day....20, 4th day....10, 5th day...5mgs. done. honestly...didn't suffer acute w/ds at all. i was 27 years old at the time.

    now...that was my experience. i'm not a doc and I don't advocate what I did....but it did work for me. but, like i said...i was using again as soon as I got back to nyc about 2 weeks later. i didn't know how to stay clean.

    i finally got clean and stayed clean for 8 years...then i relapsed on pain meds given to me for an injury. still haven't touched heroin. last time i shot dope was in February of 1990. i've been clean of all opiates for about 2 1/2 years....and, i'm doing alot of work to stay that way.

    cheers
    janice

  10. #10
    peacenik is offline Administrator
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Do you think that methadone strengths are different from one country to the next?
    No, and I think addicts are the same too :) Here, in the USA clinics have no problem increasing your dose, and I think an addict running his own detox as you are is surely going to take more drug than he needs. I think every addict thinks he had a real huge habit and needs more drugs.

    Like I said, if you take 90, or 60 mgs of methadone a day, you're building up your habit, not reducing it. The only way to detox is to take less than you did yesterday - that's the only way. And people who stay on maintainence doses, even for a month or two, have a much harder time kicking. As a matter of fact, they often give up.

    Now that's OK if maintainence is what you want, they'll keep you on methadone for life. But I hear you saying you want to detox If you do I'd get on a firm downward schedule starting tomorrow and I'd recommend you give the drugs to someone else, not your partner, to dole out to you. You should get yourself to zero within a week or ten days. If you must start on 60 then decrease 10 mgs a day till you get to 20, then down 5 a day.That's a detox. Just taking 60, or 90 or whatever you think you need indeffinitely is not a detox. It's just going to get your body accostomed to high dose methadone, and believe me, as someone who has been through it, once your body gets good and used to methadone, you're in for a rough time.

    Dave

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    jdude's Avatar
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    Quote Originally Posted by shar586 View Post
    advantages in taking lofexidine........it would also aid my attempt to reduce methadone? .... my primary source of detoxing?.... may make my journey a little smoother....
    Yes. :) It's a comfort med. Reduce/eliminate the methadone as Dave outlined. Use the Lofexadine as a cushion. A cushion to aid the physical aspects of your determination.
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  12. #12
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    Default re: Detox with methadone

    I used the USA brand called clonidine thru way to many detoxes of H. I would never plan a detox without it.... but, it only helped me thru the detox. Didn't do chit for me once I was clean.

    I also tried the Meth route only to get strung out on that and make my detox that much harder/longer.

    Then I tried suboxone, again didn't do crap for my recovery.. but another long detox.

    Finally I did learn how to surrender and gave up any opiate. This took practice, work on my part and support from those who have had more clean time then I... you know walked the road before me. I am clean today and pretty sure will be tomorrow. Learning how to live in the moment, look for opportunities to grow, deal with the bad days like "normal" folk do... normal meaning non-addict in my book. HEHEEH not all of them I would call Normal but they are clean and happy. They have what I strive for. Today I don't wake up needing that fix to smile or function. How much of a MIRACLE is that!
    omission is not honesty, only a different way of lying.

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