Welcome Renee,
What you said about staying away from NA because you're using again......that was me too.
But when you look at it, it's like getting yourself well before you go to the Dr. or cleaning the house before the maid gets there. Do you know what I'm trying to say?
The 12 steppers shouldnt and most likely wont be judging you. NA, after all, IS for the sick.

The shame that keeps you from reaching out will kill you.
I'm glad you're here at least. We have a good support system going here.

Is the fear of getting hooked and having to go through painful detox enough to keep some of you away from using everyday as opposed to using once in awhile?

Could maybe moderation be an alternative cure instead of full blown abstinence?

I've talked to a lot of addicts and it seems they set themselves up for a huge disaster when they say "I'm never going to use again....I'm done with that stuff forever"

It happens often. And usually when an addict says that, or makes that vow, they aren't being truly honest with themselves. They still miss using.

Could it be somewhat better just to tell yourself "there may come a time where I end up using again, but there is no way in hell I'm going to get hooked again...I don't want to start over"

To me, it's kind of like choosing to taper off an addiction instead of going CT. First, you taper off the physical addiction and then you taper off the "addict" inside of you.

Get clean for a month or two. Get your head straight. We all get urges. And if you need to feed that urge just so you won't end up getting back into the lifestyle, then would it be bad to just do it?

Is there a problem with using once a month? And then once every 3 months. And then once a year. And then by that point you're barely even using.

That's just the way I see things. Yes, it is a reservation to use again. But I'd rather be honest with myself and the people around me that I absolutely love opiates and that I'd rather give in a few times a year instead of "relapse," hate myself and get fully addicted.

I hope this doesn't make me look like an idiot posting this. It's just what I've learned through my POV going to detoxes and rehab.

Never, ever again do I want to get hooked. It's the worst feeling in the world.

I just recently got off. I did my 19 day meth taper. I've been off for over a week. I do have some symptoms left, but double espressos seem to even me out a bit.

Honestly, I do see myself using once in awhile in the future. I don't want it to be anytime soon because I need to get healthy first. This is my last chance to not be hooked or else my life will be ruined.

Again, if I need to take a hit once in a blue moon just to quell the urge, curiosity, and hunger, then so be it. I just never want to make a habit out of it again.

As long as it doesn't interfere with my life. Does anybody feel what I'm saying?

larksport-
Interesting proposition!
couple of things though: For ME- I've done the ol' episodic using, and invariably I am obsessing 24/7 until the time I can use next. Plus, for an addict, episodic using almost always leads you back to full-blown addiction. I read somewhere that
"It's every alcoholics dream to be able to drink like normal drinkers". Same principle applies to drugs. If you can do it, and not run into trouble, my hat's off to you...Mic

"It takes what it takes"

i hear you on that, as well...it can be a big problem for many who have long periods of sobriety as well, and these types of thoughts contribute to many relapses.. !!!my monkey will tell me, particularly in social settings, "look , just one toot, it's ok, your cured now...." i cannot afford to be fooled by these propositions!

i'm another one that has tried and failed with episodic using, generally the consumption spiral goes up not down. i tried the "use once on weekends" plan. if i remember, that one lasted through 3 weekends... hell i tried all the limited "plans"! they were limited, all right!!all brought me back to where i was.

the thing that sets us apart is that we cannot control our usage, it's almost like the presence of the chemical sets off the "allergy". the compulsion

i little head trick i would use, was to tell myself during temptation," not today, maybe tomorrow". and when tomorrow came i'd either do it all over, or the urge had passed . for some reason this worked better than that "never use for the rest of my life" proposition, which is a big one for anybody to swallow. i have had a couple "slips" during the last ten years. not doc, but with alcohol and once with halcion. i was miserable with guilt for weeks following. i knew better.

the obsession to use does shrink, the more that time goes by, aided by keeping with a good program. most times, now, it isn't even a issue. and THAT can be a danger as well. i can't afford to forget where i was. and how i got there.

charlie

instead of letting that monkey tricking you into thinking you can handle one hit...just allow the monkey to do its thing and let that be the end of it

show the monkey who's boss

Pinkie,.....your post included these words .....( I'll say it again... yesterday is gone, and tomorrow hasn't come, so you might as well have at this moment in time, because no other moment actually exists.)
(Maybe sometime you can manage to get high, but being there is a lonely place, if you think about it. You will always be lonely while you're using, because heroin is really a ghost lover, one who gives you nothing, making you chase her around the world and then disappearing the moment you think you've caught her)

Did you read that or is it your quote ?That is awesome.Sometimes we can deal with problems if we can see things in a different light.I dont know how to properly format quotes so I did it in ()'s.You should be an author.

Great post which I shall have to read through a few days in order to digest.I hope I can do it also as I am sick of using and need to change.

I have had addictions to other substances before ,but this one is the hardest I have had to work through.I thought Crack was bad.I had no idea this would be worst.

Thanks for posting and GL !

Wonderful post/thread !
All too many times do we get reminded of our troubles.
This board is a great outlet and resource for any one needing help.

Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice. and the best advice I can give is don't be afraid or ashamed to admit you need a little help.

Ravr


www.usenotoxin.com is wonderful product that helps you detox a little faster. The results were so helpful, and I believe in this "detox patch" so much I am recommending it to everyone I know.

I was wondering if anyone out there could give me information on helping a family with an addiction to herion? This family member has been in and out of jail and drug programs through our county for the last 8 years. Is there something i could do for him while he is in jail such as books or inspiritonal literature? He has said once and again this is it and is trying his hardest to get clean......he has family support and always will have but we are not sure what else to do. Anything would be apprecitated

hey there, any ideas if he is clean inside jail, as i have heard from friends who have been to prison that its easier to get heroin inside than it is on the streets!

Hey Help72

I was a Heroin and Methadone addict for 15 years. I've been to 6 Heroin funerals (all close friends in their 20's). I've Been arrested countless times and have done time in the worst county jail in America (Chicago's infamous Cook County). I was shot in the chest on a bad dope deal and almost died. I've over dosed and been brought back from the dead twice. My family and non-useing friends did everything they could to try to make me stop, yet I continued to use. I finally got to a point in my life when I truly began to develope hate.
Hate for my dispicable life, Hate for the dope dealer's and most of all the dope it's self.
That's when I changed. Every addict is different and unless he is TRULY ready for change there is nothing you can do. Just be there when he needs support and never give up on him.

As long he's alive there IS hope.

Gabriel

First of all, I don't really believe we start from square one, after,"relapse." Hopefully, we learn what does not work. Relapse is a treatment center word. We are still trying to somehow, someway, to successfully use. That is, using without any consequences. I believe that when these consequences become just to much to bear. That our suffering continues while still using, then we will become willing. I really do not want to get into the semantics of it all, but everytime this addict used, I wanted to. Sure, I didn't want all the bad things to pop up, but I was willing to give it another shot, literally. My last shot almost killed me once again, only it wasn't an overdose. My kidneys completely shut down. I was a very sick for quite sometime. Almost ended up on dialysis for the remainder of my life. The overdoses never really bothered me...I would go out and wake up in ICU. Didn't really feel any pain and was ready for another shot. Long term suffering...that has made me willing. Willing to listen...willing to take suggestions. I know this is an older thread, but I think it is an important topic. Don't let shame keep you from getting well. We usually don't have any shame in copping and using. We have to lose the perfection attitude in recovery. The most important thing we have to do today, is not use. Everything else will come in time. Gabriel, I don't think I could have said it better. Prisons, Jails, State Hospitals, Endocarditis, and on and on, never made me quit. It was that self loathing, the thought that I was going to die this way, that is when the change started. As far as drugs being in prison, they are everywhere. You cannot physically stop someone who is out to get high, from doing just that. I know it sounds calloused, but some of us will have to suffer more. Hopefully, you will live to tell the tale. Choices...am I going to fill my head with the right things today, or am I going to fill them with the sh*t that will kill my soul. If you have been around this as long as I have, you will have lost many people, many loved ones. No more do I hear their laughter, or see the smiles on their faces. As part of my recovery, I think of these people everyday. I miss them. Think of how we will be missed. They will forget alot of the addict behavior, that is human nature. They won't think of the thief stealing everything they worked for. They will remember when you made them laugh, when you made them cry. The person you used to be. We may never be that person we used to be, and that can be a good thing, because for most of us...that was all a lie. But what we can be...is who we really are. It's a journey. Enjoy every minute of it...it's all we have. Randy

One fabulous post, Randy!!!

Arlene F.
Exodus From MMT;12-25-02
<center>THIS TOO SHALL PASS</center>

Hey HJ,

I don't know why I don't visit this thread regularly. Well, I suppose it's because, as you noted, it is an old thread and rarely visited these days. Arlene's recent reply to your recent post caught my eye and, for the first time in many months, I clicked on...and I'm so delighted that I did. Just to read your post, Randy, made this little side trip very much worth while.

As you say, SHAME is such a huge part of addiction. Even though many of us addicts claim that "addiction is a shame, though it's NOT shameful", most of us STILL feel, at least, those occasional twitches of deep, painful, regrettable shame. I know that I do---and, hell, I REJECT shame. But, nah, not completely, I know. And maybe shame does serve some kind of useful purpose, maybe it does, somehow, keep us from committing some kinds of despicable acts, depending on who, exactly, we are. Maybe this is true.

Yet, as the title of this Thread says, DON'T let shame ruin your life, DON'T allow your shame to keep you inside that dope haze...because, Lord knows, that dope haze will kill you.

So, well---I suppose like all of us, I have to work on my issues with shame. Yeah, I reject them, those that stand to kill me, but, truth be told, they are still there.

So thanks, Randy, for your post. It got me thinking...and that can't be a bad thing.

best,

sam

sam bailey

I've just read the first post, I was attracted by the topic title because after my bupe withdrawal I busted on coke yesterday and I am beating myself up about it. I know if I let this depression get to me it'll turn into a lapse and I so don't want that. I'm angry at myself and angry that now I have to fight cravings again, where as before I used the coke I had no cravings for any drug. I want to go back to NA but somehow I end up feeling shame going there with little time up, so I'm trying other things for now. Maybe I'll go to a meeting tomorrow. Thanks to anyone who reads this x Brighteyes