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  1. #1
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Baclofen for addiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan70 View Post
    I haven't been on here lately because I have been busy digging myself deeper into this disease.I was about to go inpatient, but they said I had to be 72 hrs clean before they would give me a bed. Went to sub doc so I could detox myself, then go in. But he told me that I should be on 6 months of sub. He said 5000 dollars and 21 days in detox would do nothing to me. I am soooo lost. All advice I get is different. Meetings don't do anything for me. I can't find any help from God. Somebody PLEASE help me. I am 28 hrs clean anu d still not feeling bad enough to take first dose of sub. I was taking 4-500 mg of oxycodone a day for the last 3 months. I've been taking lower doses for the better part of 15 yrs. Most of you know my story please help me. I don't know where to turn. The doctor assures me they it isn't a money thing. He says he has too many patients now. He made a convincing argument for going term treatment.

    Hi,

    Have you heard of the medicine Baclofen? There is a bit about it on a website which is about using Baclofen to cure all addictions including opiate addictions. There is a French site referred to in the links section on that site set up by a man who cured himself of heroin addiction with Baclofen and there is a testimonial from a man who cured himself of opiate (codeine) addiction and alcholism. It is a very cheap drug and very effective. There are quite a few articles on the internet about its use for opiate addiction. It works on the Gaba B receptors, unlike other treatments for addiction and it has been hailed as a "cure" for all addiction by a Nobel Laureate. You can get Baclofen on prescription or over the internet. It is non addictive and very safe but has some side effects such as sleepiness.

    Here is an article from the site:

    ABSTRACT

    An emerging hypothesis to explain the mechanism of heroin-induced positive reinforcement states that opiates inhibit gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)-ergic interneurons within the mesocorticolimbic dopamine (DA) system to disinhibit DA neurons. In support of this hypothesis, we report that the development of heroin self-administration (SA) behavior in drug-naive rats and the maintenance of SA behavior in heroin-trained rats were both suppressed when the GABA(B) receptor agonist baclofen was coadministered with heroin. Microinjections of baclofen into the ventral tegmental area (VTA), but not the nucleus accumbens, decreased heroin reinforcement as indicated by a compensatory increase in SA behavior. Additionally, baclofen administered alone or along with heroin dose-dependently reduced heroin-induced DA release. This effect was blocked partially by intra-VTA infusion of the GABA(B) antagonist 2-hydroxysaclofen, suggesting an additional, perhaps GABA(A) receptor-mediated, disinhibitory effect. Taken together, these experiments, for the first time, demonstrate that heroin-reinforced SA behavior and nucleus accumbens DA release are mediated predominantly by GABA(B) receptors in the VTA and suggest that baclofen may be an effective agent in the treatment of opiate abuse.

    Hope this helps and you can find some way out. Others have. I have been taking it for a year now and it makes you feel "normal". I can direct you to some people who use it and know a lot about its use for addiction if you want. Some people are saying it is a bit of a "miracle" drug although it has been around for a long time. Doctors use it!!!

    Best wishes

    Otter
    Last edited by jdude; 11-20-2010 at 01:23 AM. Reason: add detail/ Remove ad

  2. #2
    fredgoldsmith is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    This looks a lot like an advertisement. I'm skeptical of anything that claims to be a "cure" for all addictions. Baclofen, in actual fact, hasn't been PROVEN to be a cure for anything.

    It has been tested, based largely on the anecdotal reports of one physician, for alcohol withdrawal and craving. Some positive results have been insinuated, although not clearly proven. This would make a certain amount of sense, given that Baclofen is a GABA agonist, as are alcohol and benzodiazapines.

    What is not at all clear, however, is how a GABA agonist would be a "miracle cure" for opiate withdrawals or cravings. Ask anyone who has tried to use alcohol and/or benzos for this purpose, and see how successful it was. In addition, the abstract you include is both confusing and flawed with respect to the conclusion it attempts to make.

    If this medication has helped you that's great, but frankly, that's really all you can attest to. I think it's a bit premature, and not scientifically sound, to refer to it as a cure for anything... with all due respect to this unnamed "Nobel Laureate."

  3. #3
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    I have worked with heroin addicts on Subutex since the late 1990's. It works on the Gaba A receptors. Baclofen is unique as the only drug which works on the B receptors and is well worth trying. It is incredibly cheap as it is no longer under patent. I mean a few dollars a day or less. Dr. William Bucknam is an addictions psychiatrist in Ann Arbour and he uses it for a wide range of addictions. He has published a few articles on the internet.

    This is not to say that there are not other issues to deal with through counselling but the neurological basis of addiction appears to be Gaba-B dysphoria and that just does not go away with counselling. Baclofen can give you that window of clarity and freedom from craving which can help you engage in therapy of whatever sort helps you.

    Oh, and no, this is not an advertisement and there are now probably thousands of people who are using Baclofen for alcoholism around the world and are stopping drinking. You need to look at the Mywayout forums to see the huge growth in its use over the past year. It is growing exponentially in use. It is less well known for its use in opiate addiction. All I say it is is worth looking at and there are few doctors who know about it but the mechanism of its success is plainly correct.

    The laureate is Jean Dausset.

    All the best

    Otter
    Last edited by Otter; 11-19-2010 at 05:58 PM. Reason: to update

  4. #4
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgoldsmith View Post
    This looks a lot like an advertisement. I'm skeptical of anything that claims to be a "cure" for all addictions. Baclofen, in actual fact, hasn't been PROVEN to be a cure for anything.

    It has been tested, based largely on the anecdotal reports of one physician, for alcohol withdrawal and craving. Some positive results have been insinuated, although not clearly proven. This would make a certain amount of sense, given that Baclofen is a GABA agonist, as are alcohol and benzodiazapines.

    What is not at all clear, however, is how a GABA agonist would be a "miracle cure" for opiate withdrawals or cravings. Ask anyone who has tried to use alcohol and/or benzos for this purpose, and see how successful it was. In addition, the abstract you include is both confusing and flawed with respect to the conclusion it attempts to make.

    If this medication has helped you that's great, but frankly, that's really all you can attest to. I think it's a bit premature, and not scientifically sound, to refer to it as a cure for anything... with all due respect to this unnamed "Nobel Laureate."


    The Laureate is Jean Dausset. I am not pushing this medication. I am not in the pharmaceutical industry. The mechanism is well documented and there are numerous studies on it and it is scientifically very sound even if the word "cure" may be over egging it a bit, admittedly. I can certainly steer anyone to a large number of people who will themselves tell you how it has stopped their addiction.

    I don't know why you would use alcohol or benzodiazapines to deal with opiate addiction. Benzos work on a different receptor, which is what I was attempting to explain and you would have to be crazy to take up drinking to try to treat yourself for opiate addiction. It affects all receptors including Gaba B receptors and is hugely addictive so what is the point?

    Just trying to help.

    Best wishes

  5. #5
    AumuA's Avatar
    AumuA is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Withdrawal syndrome

    Discontinuation of baclofen can be associated with a withdrawal syndrome which resembles benzodiazepine withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are more likely if baclofen is used for long periods of time (more than a couple of months) and can occur from low or high doses. The severity of baclofen withdrawal depends on the rate at which baclofen is discontinued. Thus to minimise baclofen withdrawal symptoms the dose should be tapered down slowly when discontinuing baclofen therapy. Abrupt withdrawal is most likely to result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Acute withdrawal symptoms can be stopped by recommencing baclofen.[16]

    Withdrawal symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity.

    Source: Wikipedia.

  6. #6
    fredgoldsmith is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    I'm not sure in what capacity you work with opiate addicts, but with all due respect, you seem to be rather confused about psychopharmacology. Let me try one last time to make my point.

    You say you work with Subutex (buprenorphine). Sub is a semi-synthetic, partial opioid agonist, and as such produces it's effects on the Mu/Kappa OPIOID receptors. If you think Sub produces it's effect on GABA receptors, you are confused.

    I'm aware that Baclofen is a GABA agonist. Opioids are not. That's my point. Why would a GABA agonist be effective for withdrawals and/or cravings related to an OPIOID agonist. The fact that it's cheap and a Doctor has written an internet article about it are irrelevant. The fact that you can refer people who say it works is also irrelevant; that's anecdotal information, not science.

    Perhaps you could site a research source for your statement: "Gaba B dysphoria is the basis of all addiction." I'm sorry, but I've never heard an addictionologist or anyone else say that. By the way, if Jean Dausset is your source, he was an Immunologist.

    I mean no disrespect. I would simply hate for an addict to see this information and think they'd found a shortcut around the long and difficult road of opiate withdrawal and recovery. We addicts are always looking for miracle cures. Alas, we never find them.

  7. #7
    jdude's Avatar
    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Welcome to ODR Otter......may I suggest you start a new thread. Simply click on new topic. If wanted we can even move the existing posts and replies to it...or one of the other threads on the same topic. Assuming of course you don't have recovery issues that we can share with you in your quest for sobriety and an individual cure, in which case a thread of your own would be spot on.

    One might also note in your posts you mention Subutex..not Suboxone; heroin treatments since the 90's; and Baclofen which in the US is still in clinical trial stage (looking for funding), or being scripted off label. More of a substitute for benzos. Which lends itself to a member being on the other side of the pond? NOT an issue, just an awareness to US based members.

    Dan...there are many recovery and support plans. If you're looking for one that delves into the depths of some of your personal issues, as well as a finite time plan; find a counselor experienced in CBT therapy. Some area mental health departments also offer .There's a link here somewhere on it as well. It may be more in line of your quest, and can be used in conjunction with meetings or any other plan, or plans you may choose.

    Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

    Godspeed

    Jay
    Last edited by jdude; 11-20-2010 at 01:55 AM. Reason: add link
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  8. #8
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Hi

    Subutex was introduced here in the UK as a drug treatment via Police stations upon arrest. Those arrested were questioned about their drug use and offered a chance at prescription. It has now become government policy and is called "Tough Choices".

    Here is an article on Baclofen:

    Baclofen for maintenance treatment of opioid dependence: A randomized double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trial [ISRCTN32121581]

    One of many!

    Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

    Reception
    In 2007, an Italian team has demonstrated the effectiveness and the safety of baclofen as a treatment for alcohol-addiction[5]
    Ameisen's treatment model has been hailed by Nobel laureate for Medicine Jean Dausset: "Ameisen has discovered the cure for addiction". His book has received the official endorsement of the Journal Alcohol and Alcoholism, that represents the National Council on Alcoholism and by its chief-editor, Pr. Jonathan Chick who has taken the unusual step to support Ameisen's findings in the medias (Daily Mail, The Big Issue) Prominent figures in Medicine, exasperated at the fact that addiction specialists have not fulfilled their obligation to conduct randomized trials of the only therapeutic model that could affect the deadliness of this devastating disease have publicly written: Jerome B. Posner, Chair of Neuro-oncology, George Cotzias director of the laboratory, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center wrote in January 2009:
    "One wonders if high-dose baclofen will apparently become the treatment of choice without ever undergoing a controlled trial, simply because more and more alcoholics will be treated and the effectiveness will spread by word of mouth. If it works as well as you indicate that it does, it shouldn't need controlled trials. Even if a controlled trial were to show no overall benefit, it is clear that at least some (maybe all?) patient's do respond."
    Arguably, Dr. Posner's suspicion has turned out to be correct. An online community has evolved wherein alcoholics order the medication online and self administer the drug with support from one another and Ameisen's book. Websites like mywayout.org and thesinclairmethod.net are replete with success stories of this variety. In the UK Dr Jonathan Chick, editor-in-chief of the medical journal Alcohol and Alcoholism publicly supports Ameisen's discovery.[6]> Ameisen has been awarded the French Legion of Honor by President Jacques Chirac, out of the President's personal reserve of Crosses in 1998.

    I take your point about a separate thread. I am new here.


    Best wishes
    Last edited by Otter; 11-20-2010 at 07:35 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Quote Originally Posted by AumuA View Post
    Withdrawal syndrome

    Discontinuation of baclofen can be associated with a withdrawal syndrome which resembles benzodiazepine withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are more likely if baclofen is used for long periods of time (more than a couple of months) and can occur from low or high doses. The severity of baclofen withdrawal depends on the rate at which baclofen is discontinued. Thus to minimise baclofen withdrawal symptoms the dose should be tapered down slowly when discontinuing baclofen therapy. Abrupt withdrawal is most likely to result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Acute withdrawal symptoms can be stopped by recommencing baclofen.[16]

    Withdrawal symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity.

    Source: Wikipedia.
    Yes, if you stop dead you can get withdrawal symptoms which can be avoided by reducing dosage slowly. If, that is, one wanted to stop taking it for some reason.

    That misses the issue with Baclofen treatment. It is a drug which needs to be used at high dose to be effective and getting to a high dose has to be done slowly. It is a treatment you have to take every day to prevent relapse, a bit like insulin so people who take it do not just stop dead. Withdrawal symptoms from rapid withdrawal are reversed by reinstatement of dosage.

    Best wishes

  10. #10
    jdude's Avatar
    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    I believe the key issue is maintenance treatment. :( There's a long list of substances used in maintenance "treatments".

    And yes we realize you're new here and a non-addict. Hence the Welcome to ODR. And every member..new or not... has a reasonable expectation to replies directly proportional to the author's quest, without un-warranted debate or controversy. Dan does...as well as you do. If your quest is to inform and discuss a specific topic, my suggestion is to start a thread.

    It also makes it easier for folks to do a search on it later...especially if you 'tag' it.
    Not meaning it badly..quite the opposite......if the topic helps you, it's important. If it helps just one addict...it's twice as important. ;)
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Just a quick note, otter. While the information you present is appreciated, the comparison of any drug used to help opiate withdrawal symptoms to insulin is sadly misguided and will not go over well here.--Chris

  12. #12
    Otter is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: at the end of my rope

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchr2k10 View Post
    Just a quick note, otter. While the information you present is appreciated, the comparison of any drug used to help opiate withdrawal symptoms to insulin is sadly misguided and will not go over well here.--Chris
    Hi

    I am not trying to offend anyone and am sorry that you would take it that way.

    I am not comparing it to insulin as such. What the point is with Baclofen treatment is that it is not a drug which you take once and it "cures" you. You have to take it every day of your life or you relapse.

    I know, I live with an addict and she takes it every hour of every day.

    Best wishes

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