There's been a lot of discussion about how "hitting bottom" is different for everyone.

I have witnessed for at least six months - perhaps longer - what should for most be "bottom" - and it isn't for my daughter and her husband. Now it is beyond desperate and they may be running - instead of facing things...with children.

What is causing this? I read the stories here and I see how desperate things were when the decision was made to seek help - but, what causes someone to keep pushing that inevitability further and further out?

Edited: they haven't ran - yet. But, she is getting more and more verbally aggressive with authorities. The reactions / actions aren't fitting with what I've read on this board.

Hi Glynn,

I am so sorry to hear that not much has changed except for the fact that things are getting worse.

I think that things are not "fitting" what other addicts here have experienced is that usually in a relationship, only one partner in a marriage is an addict. When both are, it causes more difficulty to hit that bottom, because they have each other to enable them and and probably together want to get clean, but that will happen.....after court....after the weekend....after the boys birthday...after this...after that...I think you get the point. With both of them being addicts, they have each other to lean on, no one is making ultimatens, no one is kicking them out of their home!

I have never met anyone that wants to be an addict, especially if they have children. They want to get clean, but there is always so much fear. Fear of getting sick, fear of withdrawals, fear of losing each other, fear of being away from the boys. The list goes on and on. I am sure they have both gone beyone their bottoms than if they were alone. One may decide to get clean, but it's almost impossible to do so if they are not both on board at the same time.

Your daughter also knows that you are willing to help them go to rehab, so they know they have that door open to them should they make the decision to go. So again, it will be after they get their next fix, after they run out of money.......and there they go again.

I wish I had something more concrete to tell you, that if you knew when they hit this or that bottom, that would be the end of it, but everyone is so different and what a bottom would be to one person, the next would never go beyone that.

I know for me as an addict I swore I would never do anything illegal, but then I had to. I swore I would never leave my children, until I had to, swore I would never drink and drive until I had to...... After each relapse, the bottom gets lower and lower until we are in so deep that we can't see a way out. Most of us are forced to recovery and that is why it doesn't work. Not until we really want to get clean, for ourselves does recovery happen.

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do and I can see that this is so painful for you. I wish I could help more!

Please take care of yourself, I'm sure all this stress is taking a toll on you, and you really need to keep yourself healthy becaue eventually you will have the boys in your care, and you don't want to be so stressed and sick when that happens.

Hugs,
Penny

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Never quit quitting!

Hey Glynn.....have you ever looked at some of the numbers on the ODR forums?

If you take the 4 'main' detox forums; pain pills,suboxone,methadone, and heroin you'll come up with some numbers:Combined about 12,500 threads, with about 165,000 posts. When we look at the family section we have 289 threads, with about 4,000 posts. And yet, for every addict there are multiple family members represented.....affected....devastated.
To a non-addict one may be able to identify and associate with the 12,500 posts...but not understand them.
But every addict knows the chaos and turmoil we create with our active addiction. WE do know that we either recover,seek recovery... or die addicted. Our 'lows' or 'rock bottoms' are as different as there are addicts. To reach that low..the epiphany to recover.. we struggle with issues such as the physical,emotional,depression, hate,guilt,fear,love,shame,spirituality,denial,cop ing with life in general, the list goes on and on. We project that on our loved ones. And our loved ones while trying to 'understand',sometimes can't separate anger with concern and understanding.

What to do? As addicts in active addiction we have no cognitive ability. If the children are in danger, act fast, decisively without anger.Prayer could'nt hurt.
Your statement" Now it is beyond desperate and they may be running - instead of facing things...with children."
If they are in active addiction....they ARE NOT 'facing things'. They havn't hit their 'rock bottom' yet.....no need for the children to. Not all rocks come out as diamonds!

Godspeed
Jay

btw...I havn't forgot the 'assignment responses' I owe you.

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Dearest Glynn- Jay is so right. Active addicts have no ability to see where they are at or what they are doing. Do whatever you can for the children and take care of yourself. You cant help anyone else if your own needs arent being met. Keeping you in my loving thoughts, hugs

I just found this website last week. I guess I have hit my own bottom. I just got off the phone with my ex husband who has taken our heroin addicted son back into his home and I said "don't call me". I don't want to hear about our son and the daily drama. I want to get healthy. I spent Sunday before Mother's Day with him at a treatment center. We had forced him to go after he overdosed and drove him straight from the emergency room. He left after 5 days. When he called me on Mother's Day I said thank you for the call, I love you but I don't have any plans to see you until you are clean and sober. Now I have to set a boundary with his father who is unwilling to stop enabling our son. But I can't do this anymore. I want a healthy, happy life again. I want to enjoy my other chikldren. I never thought I would get to this point but I truly don't want anything to do with my son. Even though he has been my entire obsession for 5 years. The only way I know to get better is to turn my back on him and turn his life over to God each day.

Dear loralee, please stay around as you will have wonderful, supportive company here. My heart goes out to you for all you have been through. We've been there with our daughter. Bravo for setting your boundaries- as painful as it is, its the right thing to do for yourself AND for your son. As long as he thinks someone will bail him out, he doesnt have any incentive to do the work himself. Your refusal to enable/save him is an important step. Mother's day is a hard day for all of us here (Father's day, too) but we are here to support each other. Sending hugs

Lora how old is your son? Unfortunately we cannot make them go to treatment. And it is usually when the world caves in that they go. I made up this lie to my son that there was an APB out on him. Took him to an attorney and hid him in the car. He would not listen, went back home and all night waited to get busted, got so scared that by 9 the next morning he called me to go to detox. He just knew he did not want to go to jail, that is the ONLY reason he accepted treatment, in lieu of jail.
Yes you are right, his addiction will consume you and it will take you longer to heal than him, for he gets in a treatment center 24 hours of supervision and therapy while you go off to try and get over this yourself. Well you must not do this on your own, any more than he can. You must reach out to get yourself some help. I did not do that immediately, so eventually I got so so sick and landed in the hospital. Stress does not just affect the mind, but makes the body sick. I would call some places that might help you get you back. Some people go to ALANON, I went to a clinic and took classes on what addiction was and went to personal counseling, but not till I was nearly dead. Please take care of you.
As for the h/b, he needs to know that by allowing your child to use in his home he is breaking the law, and he will just as quickly go to jail as your son. The problem with addiction is that nothing changes until something changes. That something is usually something horrible like an arrest, etc. When this happens and there are no NO choices left but rehab or jail, then they choose rehab.
Addicts are wonderful at deception. After many years of listening to my son's lies I started to think, well he is caught out and I am definitely thinking better than he is, so I will do whatever it takes to get him in rehab. And so I did, I lied to him, and I am NOT promoting dishonesty really, but remember the addict is dishonest and all your honesty will only make him use more.
Advise your h/b he is breaking the law and you KNOW this. Give him at least a list of numbers where your son can go, then be done with it.
And get yourself some help hon, cause this does not just get better for you. The worry that consumes someone who loves the addict is analogous to the drugs that consume the addict. Realize this ok.
Keep posting,
With empathy and respect,
annie

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Anne

((Glynn))

I think watching our addicted loved one find their rock bottom is incredibly difficult. I can't tell you the number of times I said.. well this is it.. she will finally realize this is not the life she should be living... and bam, something else, usually something else, worst happened.. again and again.

I think I also tried to help her hit her rock bottom. Not financially supporting her, not driving her places, kicking her out of the house.. Like my goal was to say... if you think the grass is greener on the other side... go for it... and being as crafty as they are, they make it for awhile.

My biggest fear was rock bottom for her was death. That thought consumed me.. to my very soul. It seems like it's still always there... I wish it would just go away..

I am so happy the grandchildren don't have to see their Mom's rock bottom. And you are able to help them... they need you.
Hugs
K

Thank you so much for your replies. I had such a terrible unfunctioning day yesterday. Today is better. I am going to al-anon twice a week now and I even have started writing my fourth step. I am working my program very hard--and I have to just to stay half way normal.
But I feel like I've lost 5 years of my life to this intense pain and it is still here. My addict is 19 and has only been on heroin a year, but was in two rehabs as a teen before he ever touched heroin. Now I am afraid he will die. He overdosed and his Dad resucitated him and the firetrucks came and gave him narcan. I arrived at the emergency room and held his hand and sobbed while he cried with me. But he ran away from treatment.

I want to obsess about him and call his father (my ex husband) and see what he is doing (i found out from his aunt he did go to an NA meeting yesterday), but I don't because I want to get healthy and live MY life. I have 3 other children. I want to be there for my oldest in two weeks when she makes me a grandma. I don't want it always all about my son.

loralee,

My heart absolutely goes out to you. It is so very hard to watch your child self destruct and not be able to help.

The crazy thing is that when we start learning to 'let go with love' is when they sometimes come around and start seeking help themselves. It sounds like that might be happening and I sure hope so.

Above all what I have learned is that recovery always starts within and it is my responsibility to take care of me, first. We can let ourselves get really sick behind this disease and I am glad you are taking steps to avoid that by going to Al Anon.

Take care of yourself. Keeping you and yours in my prayers,
Trudger

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The Ego Seeks The Destination
The Soul Seeks The Journey

Loralee,

Welcome.

I can idendify with everything you said and how you feel. We are not divorced, but, we were not a united front.. we came from 2 completely different views. I can tell you, that was very hard as well... somehow, I managed not to hang on to his enabling... and let him carry that guilt. .. work thru it himself.

You and your son seem to have support.. so I pray he uses his support system to get well. And the same for you.

I too have another child, a son.. and I spent a good amount of this winter with him. I did not run to the rehab for visitation, instead I stayed with him, did lunch, homework with him etc.. It was very hard for me... but looking back... it was the best thing I could have done... for all 3 of us. Infact, last night he and I went to dinner...my husband called and said he had a meeting... so we went...and my husband ended up meeting us.. and my son said.. I wanted it to be just you and me, Mom,like old times. I felt bad for my husband... but he made his bed.. he made his choices.

So I guess what I am saying... is please enjoy the other kids... they need you just as much.
HUGS
K

Glynn, how are you today? Youve been in my thoughts and prayers. You helped me get through the day yesterday-even as you were suffering. Its amazing you were able to hold your hand out to me while you were in such pain. Now Im extending my hand to you. Keep taking the next breath, the next step. Keep taking care of yourself. You dont want to stay where you are now. Will keep you in my loving thoughts. Sending hugs, S

Lora- so glad you found us here on ODR. You can start your own "thread" by clicking on the 'new thread' button - its blue and it at the upper left side of the screen when you are in the Friends and Family (or any other section) of the forum. We want to keep in touch with you and are ready to give you whatever support you might need. Take care.

Teddy - it's getting crazier here. Add attorneys to this mess - and it gets even more confusing.

I told Kelly yesterday that I have gotten to the point in which I don't want to see people I know. I don't want to have to deal with people who don't understand and judge this situation. Honestly, this group of incredible women is enough for me. You guys have gotten me through many challenges - and every one of you deserves so much credit for still standing strong and dealing with these different situations - but, the core is the same. I feel as though I know your children and with every success they have I feel hope. Emily is still in rehab - yea! Kirsten is making the calls and working toward recovery. There are many taking steps forward. That's encouraging to me. You sound better today....and the advice of taking the next breath; the next step is so good...Annie keeps saying that too. The next RIGHT step is really all we can do.

I am also glad you found us, Lora. You cannot find better support. We don't know the answers (obviously) but we all do certainly "get" how you feel.

I've tried to post this a couple of times - hope it works this time. I am starting to reconsider this entire "hitting bottom" concept. I've been waiting for my daughter to hit bottom and instead I've done that...well, not really, but you get my point. Lots of damage is happening while we're all just waiting. Things keep happening that in my world would have me begging for mercy....I am not seeing that with my daughter. When I ask the question why - instead of gaining an understanding of that - it just makes me feel manipulated. So, what does a person do when to anyone looking in at the situation the bottom was reached long ago?

Bottom line - her children need her...and I love her so much. But, I haven't called - I haven't emailed. I am waiting for my daughter to reach out. Is that the right approach?

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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