(my thread link)
Heroin to c/s to methadone, my son

Kirsh please read my thread on here so you have some idea of what could/might/does happen when a child is on heroin. Read it and get some insight to what I did wrong and what I did right/what helped me to help my son help himself/and what did not help me at all to help my son help himself. And notice I did not say "help my son" but "help him to help himself". Read it for me please. And comment on it, write to me a post and let me know if you can relate to anything I said on there ok?[xo]

Sweetie you ended your last post with a question. The honest answer about family help or about them coming to you for help is actually a simple answer. YES you must be available to take them to detox or rehab and I mean the second they ask you go. You do not let them get their things in order, no nothing, you just get the phone, pick up the list of numbers you have (you have them yes?) and call right then and there and get her in there that night.

That is the end of what you do to help. From there we leave it to the professionals. They go to a place and share space with other addicts, most of whom are desperately seeking recovery, many of whom are homeless. Most people in there are in there cause they reached their bottom, are without job/friends/loved ones/love/laughter/money/a roof over their heads. She will stay with these people and they will stay up nights talking. She will learn the worst that can happen (as in dying) and the best that can happen (as in recovering). She will attend meetings and learn just what addiction does to your body/mind and spirit. They will teach her how to live without drugs. That is not your job nor mine. That job belongs to addicts who have lived for decades in recovery. That is the job of professionals. Your job, should you chose to do it, is to be ready at every moment for her to ask for help.

Let your son be with his feelings for his sister, she has totally let him down and he does not have any idea really why. I am sure, as most people think, that she chooses to live this way and that if she wanted to get off drugs she would simply stop. And while that notion might seem logical, to a full blown addict it is not. The addict hates him/herself; feels guilt and shame in every moment of their day; does not laugh or have fun anymore; spends every day chasing a high that they probably will not find unless they OD. While they hate living like this they do not either know how to stop. That is why you must be ready with every possible detox center and extensive rehab center. For when the day comes that she is arrested, loses her home, or overdoses, that is going to be your chance to jump up, pick up her, bring her home, pull out the list, and start calling numbers. That is the time you will need those numbers in your hands and you WILL NOT have time or will she have the patience to wait while you say, "Let me make a phone call or go on this site, or find out what is out there". Addicts are extremely inpatient people, they are accustomed to instant gratification. They wait for nothing, they walk away in stead. And you must MUST be prepared for when the day comes that she calls you. And you MUST tell her right out that you will not talk to her or help her in any way, but the second she calls you for help you will be there in a NY minute!

So read my thread hon, if you have the time, and learn it by heart. Learn what you can do. And if your h/b does not want to go to ALANON for whatever reason, then YOU GO. I mean just go love. Many people go alone, this is not a couples thing. You get wiser so you will better be able to understand exactly where she is at. And when you do you will have what it takes to get through to her. Please put your child before your h/b in this case and get to a meeting. You need to learn what addiction is and that it IS a disease and one of the most ravaging diseases in this country. It kills kids off every single day. And the jail is full of addicts, who would be far better served in rehab, but that is not how the system works. If an addict breaks the law to get heroin, it is cause he is caught out and very desperate, sick from not having drugs in his/her system. But to the COURT illegal activity is illegal activity and the reasons do not matter and the sentence will not reflect the drug addiction, it will ONLY reflect the crime.

Once you read my thread and go to a meeting you will better understand what your daughter is thinking and you will see that she has absolutely no control whatsoever over using drugs. You will then be able to talk to her on her level, and be able to get her to listen far easier.

Meanwhile get the numbers, read my thread, and pray. Let God take over what you cannot control. Just love your son unconditionally, and know he cannot possibly understand or be compassionate about his sister at this point. Just accept that, and even expect that your h/b may choose not to understand but that you CAN choose to learn about this and it WILL serve you.

Remember to work hard on keeping yourself healthy. Remember that healing begins with you. Love yourself and believe in yourself. Have faith, and once you find that light inside you it will shine to everyone around you. And with an angel on your shoulder (and boy they were there on mine when my son was in trouble) all shall be well.
Much love MaMa,
annie

Anne

No excuse for the Christian Homeschool lady. How completely ridiculous and rude! No compasionate person could have drilled you like that. I think I would have snapped at that point. I compliment you on your self control. My heart goes out to you! hugs

Wow K,

I don't know either. Although I have learned that the family is usually the last to get through to loved ones that are into addiction, I don't ever think I have thought it through. Right now I am thinking that being family carries with it baggage that doesn't come with strangers?

The thing with my sister is...she came to us. So I guess I am hoping that she will do that again because I am pretty sure she is not going to listen to me if I contact her. Another aspect to it is...they usually have to be hurting pretty bad before they are ready to listen to anyone. When I was still out there and thought there was a chance that the alcohol and drugs might still work..I know I was not receptive to any other ideas because it was the only thing I had ever found comfort from. The only thing that had ever taken my fear away.

I couldn't give that up until I was done. Until I tried everything within my power to fix me. When I finally did give up I called my oldest brother. He was not as emotionally involved as the rest of the family and on some level I think I knew he wouldn't try and fix me. ??

[xo]Trudger

The Ego Seeks The Destination
The Soul Seeks The Journey

Krish - my thoughts about family vs. outsiders....I feel an outsider could have possibly had more influence on my daughter earlier...I wish there had been someone we could have turned to when we questioned things but got nowhere with her. Now she is talking at least to my husband. Relationships are in an upheaval. Her brother has pretty much disowned her - her sister is stunned by it all. I had a respect for my adult children's "privacy" - the desire to not "interfer" - I respected boundaries...and all that just blew up in my face. Completely. That person who grilled you like that was awful. I've had some awkward moments - usually with family members who know a little but not all - I'm so upset at this point that I hope everyone knows enough to just back off.

Good Morning,

I guess I just look at it as a "test"..there's always gonna be those people out there... that push that are curious, etc.. I have to remain strong and not break down like I did and fight tears and want to run. It goes back to that... I have to live thru this...live with some kind of quality of life. Thanks for understanding

Anne- I believe I read your thread?? I feel like ( and I hear this from my boss daily), it's a a process.. I have to keep going thru the process. There will be good days... where I make progress and there will be days were I can't imagine I am 2 steps backwards again.

Right now.. at this time, Emily should have been done with her court appointment. I thank god, I did not not drive down there to watch or see her... I didn't pay the fines, I was not there on any physical level. Emotionally I was kinda there... but I am going to lunch with a friend today..for me.

I was somewhere yesterday... can't remember.. but at a store and there was a mirror... and I didn't know it was there, looked in it.. and I was like ..omg is that me? Yes. That is me.. I didn't even recognize myself. When I met my own eyes in the mirror.. I had to look away..didn't want to cry right there in the store...I know what I need to do... and I am doing it this week.
1. Get my polarity session- tonight
2. Eat- working on that all week
3. Get my hair done.. something all new - Thurs
4. Get some fresh air, get healthy color in my face- Starting Vit D today
5. Do not buy any new clothes that are smaller- If I need retail therapy, get wrinkle cream

So I have a plan for myself..and it sound small or trite... but it's all I can do right now.
Thanks
K

K-

Another thing I thought about after my last post here and the mentioning of family carrying emotional baggage with each other. My emotional baggage in making the decision to call my brother was this...I had never talked to him about my drinking and drugging. He was the only one of us four kids that didn't become addicted to drugs, his addiction was to work and success. So on 'some level' I knew it would not be as painful for him to deal with me as it would for my parents.

My bottom came when I made that call to my brother and asked him to come pick me up and do something with me. I also told him I didn't care what..that I couldn't do it (function) a day more on my own. If I had called my parents I might have seen my Dad cry, again. I had only seen him cry one time when they had received a phone call from my sister telling them she was afraid for me (she thought I might try and kill myself). My parents arrived at my house early in the morning and found me drunk and my Dad broke down and cried. I knew his heart was breaking and thus, so was mine. My Mom, well my Mom thought I was mental and needed more doctors and medication. I don't remember how long after that visit from my parents that I gave up and called my brother but I am sure the humiliation and 'shame' from that played a part in my bottom. My brother took me to the emergency room of the nearest hospital and that is where I heard the magic words from AA strangers, 'you don't have to live in fear anymore'.

It had nothing to do with nice home or stuff or feeling inadequate in that area, my decision came from guilt and shame, from putting my parents through so much. At the time I had all those nice things myself, tri level home, with pool, boat, several cars etc. The disease didn't take me to the streets but to hiding in my house.

Anyway, I just keep putting stuff out here so maybe something will speak to you.

The condition you are in now I can also relate to. So broken and not knowing when I will fall apart nor how to get through the day hoping it doesn't happen, in public. And that is where meetings helped me. My regular AA meetings, the AlAnon meetings and phone calls with people in the program that had walked in my shoes.People that had experienced the horrible pain of having a child caught up in addiction.

I can tell you how that helped me. By doing the above, by talking with people on a regular basis and sharing my fear and grief with them I didn't have to carry that around with me all the time. By getting all those emotions out, with people that understood, it seemed I was better able to function with my daily life and the responsibilities I had in front of me. I was a single parent of two teenagers and had to work full time so I couldn't pick and choose when I felt able to be around 'normal' people. And really, working wasn't very difficult given I was processing those feelings in a healthy way and so was better able to let go and show up to work without feeling like I was going to break down any minute.

AlAnon is not about learning how to help the addict in your life, it is learning about what part you might be playing and how to better take care of you. It is a family disease and everyone in the family plays a part. By going and learning how to take care of me I also heard other's experiences and would listen closely to the ones that had children that had made it to recovery. I do believe that helped me learn how to not enable my kids, thus give them a better chance of hitting their bottom and reaching out themselves.

All that said, I also know I didn't draw the line with my kids until I was ready. People can give us advice til it is coming out of our ears and until we are ready we are not going to do it. At least that was the way it worked for me. I knew months and months before I kicked my son out of our home that it would be the best thing, at the same time I knew I wasn't going to do it until my gut and my heart agreed with my head.

Thinking of you and keeping you in my prayers. You are certainly on the right track and I can see that. I just wonder why the resistance to AlAnon. I know you had said you hear things that are frightening but I do believe if you were to go and give it a chance, the positive would outweigh any negative and it could be a incredible support avenue for you, just as it was for me. There is nothing better to me then having someone say to me, I know how you are feeling, I know the awful pain you are in because I 'used' to be there and it does get better. Let us show you how we worked through our own pain, in spite of the addiction going on, so you will have some comfort, knowing you aren't alone and knowing it can get better as it has for us. In AlAnon I learned how to stop hanging on by my bloody fingernails

Then there is this last thing....I knew while I was going to both programs and getting the help I needed I was also opening the door for my children to do the same. They have seen their Mom at her worst with addiction and have witnessed how recovery and meetings helped me. I had always heard that children will learn more from the actions parents take then the advice parents give and so hoped that by seeing the changes brought about in me they would know where to go for help when they needed it. It hasn't happened. My kids are adults now and addiction doesn't play a big part in their lifes although co-dependency is huge in my daughters life. She knows where she can get help but so far her 'fear' keeps her from going to AlAnon. I am hoping the more she struggles (and she does), the harder her life gets, then maybe she will be more willing to face her fears.

So here is another book from me and like I have said before, if one thing I share helps, then I am happy to do it.

Hugs,
Trudger


The Ego Seeks The Destination
The Soul Seeks The Journey

Hey Kelly- you are so right, this is a process. As for looking at yourself in mirrow, yep, its hard to see the pain and the toll its taken on you. But look again-- there is some strength there, someone who chooses to live, to fight. Be good to her. She is doing all she can in a terrible situation- be GOOD to her! She is grieving for what she has lost (at least for now) and for knowledge that is as painful as it is helpful. You saw a good woman who is doing all she can to move on! Forgive that woman for not knowing how to cope 100% during each emergency, forgive her for not knowing sooner, forgive her for not protecting her daughter (the way a mom thinks she should, but cannot in this situation). Find your comforts wherever you can and keep moving forward. Hugs

Thank you both! I need to print out the forgiving part..and remind myself daily. Thanks

Trudger you asked this:

I just wonder why the resistance to AlAnon.

I can't say I haven't tried it.. because I have. I have not given it 100%. To be totally honest here..because I am an honest person..but I don't want to be"jumped" on.. I sorta feel very uncomfortable in those meetings... I hate to use the word "cult".. or it's just an organization that does't make me feel I "need" or feel comfotable with it. It could be that particular meeting or ones that are closest to me due to location. But here is way I do not enjoy it.
I don't like hearing more sad stories upon sad stories.. breaks my spirit. I want to come out of something feeling better, not worst.
I don't care for some of the woman approaching me to be my sponcer, when actually they irritated me during meeting
I am very spiritual myself, but I don't like "praying" with others
I don't want to devote anymore time, taking my time / gas to go to something for my daughter anymore. I am done driving around due to her. I actually get in the car to car.. and think to myself..dam her for taking another 1.5 hours of my life because of her choices
I have gone to meetings alone and with a friend, I come out feeling the same.
I used to think my story wasn't good enough... the ppl there had lost so much more than myself. I wasnt' worthy. Now I think my story is as bad if not worst than others and I don't want to be there with the sad story.
I sit there, like here and ppl say the same things over and over.. hear advice or guidance or ideas and week after week they don't take the action. They are stuck.. I don't want to be stuck
And the biggest thing... is I don't want this in my house, my life, my aurua..and if I go, I am briging it all back. That's just me thou... my son and I need to move away from it...not towards it.
Now having been honest and said all this... I certainly think it's a great program. I am so glad it's out there..and it's free...that's best part of it. I think it helps a great majority of people there and I wish I felt comfortable.. as I said, I have tried it...many times. I am not afraid or in fear of it or learning..that's not it.. I think spiritually I am somewhere else.
I have the Alanon book, I have many tool from there and Hazelten, I use daily.
I have a great therapist.. I mean..I am so comfortable with her.
I have a great friend, her son is still in step down, I mentioned her before. She makes a bigger effort to go to Alanon than I do. Her son wants her to get a sponcer. She feels like I do... I don't wanna call some stranger or have them say to her "why didn't you call your sponcer?"..when we have each other..we thank god everyday we have each other. She knows the players, she knows the neighborhood, she's been educated and done all the Family workshops. So it's not I don't reach out.. I really do when I know I need it.. I just don't go there.
I am sorry if I offended anyone with my thoughts or feelings about it.. I do believe in it and do think it helps the masses.

Well Emily and her b/f had the court thing today.. my husband checked on the website.. all charges dimissed for both and cases closed. Not what I was looking for.. but they said time served. For ppl like them, it's a slap on the wrist and a license to do it again I am sure.

The advocay lady from FL just now.. Emily was approved for victims comp. I can send those reciepts to her. The guy will walk if she doesn't do a deposition..which I don't think she will because she active in her addiction now. When she leaves..she leaves a trail...and we pick up the pieces again.

THanks!
K

K-

No offense taken here at all.

So, are you saying it doesn't work for you? [:x)]

I am glad you laid it out like you did. Gives me a better perspective of where you are coming from.

Spiritually sound and with great support, yes? I feel better[;^)]

[xo]Trudger

The Ego Seeks The Destination
The Soul Seeks The Journey

I don't know if I can say it doesn't work for me... I have given it about a dozen times...2 to 3 different meetings..cause everyone says to try different ones...and came out feeling the same way. We live in a very fake, uppidy suburb...maybe I don't relate to this area...and not taking my time going to drive elsewhere... Like the sayings go.. It works if you work it. Keep coming back.. you gotta play to win ( lottery! lol)

Today is is a hard one.. I don't know why... I think, cause I visited one of my clients.. great guy! He was sitting there on his couch reading his bible.. He wanted my daughters CD, he volunteers at the radio station.. I have been promising him I would drop off a copy and was in the neighborhood today. He said he was gonna listen to it and if he liked it, he was going to pass it on the station manager.. and then the 4 of us.. me , my daughter, him and the mgr would meet and have lunch to discuss her potential. I just smiled and said.. great idea...let me know.. and remember you might not even like it... He said be expecting a call from station.... I am like.. here we go again..

Last night my husband texted her b/f phone.. he texted back saying she was not with him anymore..
As much as I loath the kid.. I knew where she was..it's the not knowing that throws me... wish I didn't have an imagination some days!
K

Now lovely mama I have been where you are right now, not knowing where my son was. It is horrible and there is really only one thing to do, at least for me, and that is pray. I mean get down and pray!

That the b/f is gone could be a good thing. No one likes to be alone using, because the truth of it is that addiction is a lonely disease period. So today, for you, I pray she reaches out to you. Hold your course. Believe it will get better, tis all we can do as parents of older kids.

You know what I did was match myself up with someone who ran a sober living facility. This guy, who is now gone, helped so many people in his 30 some years of sobriety. He dedicated his life to helping other addicts. Such that it was, he was the one who took my son into his sober living house. And while I was not permitted daily contact with my son, I could always call Willie and talk to him. He taught me so much. Every day I called him from work, in the morning when I knew all the kids were out working, and he would talk to me for so long. I learned what addiction was and what I could and could not do. I went to therapy and learned how to live with myself while my son was caught out.

In group settings I focus on the individual who is the worst off in the group and then give all my energy to that person. Hence I find myself just giving energy away instead of accumulating good energy for myself. So that is what I CHOSE to do to learn. I also went to meetings held at the hospital where they would discuss what addiction actually was. I took notes and raised my hand as if I was taking this as a class in college and I LEARNED. It does not matter really if you go to a meeting, call a friend in the know, or go to counseling. The important thing is we need to learn to heal ourselves so we can then be of service to our kids.

So please do not feel badly, there are always many approaches to a problem, and it remains important that people know this. My way might not work for you, but maybe it will work for someone else. What is the only important thing is to find your own inner light and make it shine!
So go forth lovely mama,
Find what you need for you,
And pray for that lovely daughter of yours.
Love annie [xo]

Anne

Thanks Anne!

Well he lied and she is still with him. I was wrong on the charges..and she has 4 felonies she is facing..

We had lots of phone calls back and forth tonight.. She wants to bargin. She goes to rehab, anywhere WE want and we drop her and his charges.

We said we aren't doing the work.. here are the numbers and when you use them, make a plan let us know..

That's the short of it... One minute she is talking, bargining non stop, the next very quiet, sad...

She is telling me she can't quit.. I tell her who to call, where to go.. but she is still all talk and no action

I am glad I still have heart cause it's been broken too many times...

Dear Kelly, this could be progress in disguise- theres a battle going on and I am so glad you are not waivering. Good job on giving her the numbers to call. Its all in her hands- the power to make the right choice and each step afterwards. If she only knew how powerful she was! There is so much fear on her side (as well as yours)- she's afraid she cant quit, she's scared of facing life without the drug buffer. The truth is she can do it and once she commits to it and moves towards it, much of the fear will dissipate. With good support at rehab, she can quit. I know about the heart issue--so much pain you wonder how it is still ticking, right?? Well, I will attempt to quote Kahlil Gibran (hope I spelled it right) from his book, The Prophet. "As deeply as you are cut with pain, that is your capacity for joy." I am hoping this is true for you all soon. Hugs

ps, Heres the actual text:

"Your joy is your sorrow unmasked.
And the selfsame well from which your laughter rises was oftentimes filled with your tears.
And how else can it be?
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."

Thanks Teddy!..and Trudge!

I am gonna write that quote down and put it in my usual spots! I was looking for a new one..seems I "bored" with the others...

I am going to see the therapist today..soon...that will help. I hate crying in her office, but she always reminds me.. I am safe there..and that's she is for.

Last night, when talking to Em, I tried to reach her as a Mom.. telling her if I could take her pain,take it upon myself... I would in a heart beat.. and my beautiful baby deserves so much more. I told her to remember the last time we laughed so hard.. when we flew home from FL.. and the about the girl sitting next to me on the plane..she said it was a he.. we made up this whole story about him being from Pursia..and laughted til we cried.
All she said to me was.. you are very good at verbalizing how you feel.. I KNOW how you feel.
I said I am not telling you to feel guilt or shame.. I am telling you because I am trying to reach you deep inside. She said she understood and loves me very much and I knows I love her.

My family and friends are calling.. trying to reach me.. they know somethings up when I don't talk for a few weeks... I don't even feel like returning their calls.. and that's not me.

Just waiting for it all to pass
Thanks!
K

Well last night was another...stressful for me conversation. Her thinking is just sooo off.. it actually didn't break my heart last night... it confirmed I can't deal with this on a daily basis anymore..and she wants everything done for her because she took right steps yesterday..It was almost hard not to laugh...

Her b/f..who might be just a friend as of today..because he is going out every night.. with another girl and not taking Emily. He said to her...I am sick of you.. your like a little baby...can't do anything for yourself. I just said.. well if he is saying that...maybe you better step it up.

I asked if his family knew they were addicts.. she said..well not the whole story. The Mom did ask her if Emily was the girl that was with Joey when he od.. Emily said yes..that was me.

She then asked if we would be willing to talk to his parents...I said sure.. but, I have a history of 4 years to tell them about what their son has done to us and other families in this city.. and all the people he has stolen from and about his addiction, and how we have about a dozen families that are happy he is finally scared..and gotten caught...then we can talk to them about the charges they want us to drop. She said well that's not gonna work then...

She said she is teaching guitar to some kids at a church.. and she has a band in this church and would like us to join them on Christmas Eve at the church... I said, sorry we have plans.. I am sure it will be good thou.. if felt GOOD saying that...

I then said we are going circles and I can't do listen to this anymore... I gave her the number of the 2 year rehab and someone on this board that is willing to talk to her.. said make those calls and we will talk again..

I totally dispise this other family... but it actually felt GOOD to not cave...It felt good to say her.. we are detached from you and the situation now.