We are leaving as soon as hubby gets out of meeting. I had a bad evening (thanks Kelly and Annie for your help) - I just cannot get over how "normal" my daughter sounds....anyway, we shall see what happens.

Have a super safe trip!.. or shall I say return!
Call anytime... I am here for you!
I am thinking and praying for all of you!
Hugs
K

Be safe, sending my love and hugs. Thinking of you!

Well, the grandsons have been here for awhile. Doing as well as I could hope under the circumstances...still in limbo about what happens next. My daughter is in denial - plain and simple - as to the drug use. She considers it "dabbling" - that her husband may be "broken" and she cannot leave him in that condition - but, she is fine. What a huge error in judgment she is making. But, as I've learned - that is out of my control. Many things are. It may turn out with state to state laws that even the well being of the children may be out of my control. However, I am horrified at the thought of a 12 year old being in a home in which one parent is described as an "addict and broken" and the other parent is clearly codependent, coenabling in the situation and using drugs herself. So, right now, I'm just getting my resources together with the hope that my daughter at some point will go to rehab (we have offered to help her and her husband) - and the boys can stay with us until she is well. I am upset at myself that we allowed it to get to this point - but, there I go again - I didn't do any of this....my daughter was/is very adept at putting questions in my mind about who, the severity, which drugs, etc. She knows I am appalled at the thought of coming between a mother/son relationship and she just kept us confused for years. Enough.

Hey Glynn, its good to hear from you- even when all the news isnt so good. Glad your grandsons are with you- even if you cant be sure for how long. You are providing stabilty and sanity for them. Dont let her question what you KNOW in your heart. Your gut isnt lying to you about her (and her husband's) situation, it just doesnt lie about stuff like this. Im sorry she cant see (or cant admit that she sees) where she is in her life right now. I hope with all my heart she will be able to do that someday. You didnt allow it to get to this point- she did. You did all you humanly could to avoid getting it to this point. Keep delivering the message to her - about rehab. Do whatever you can to take care of you! Im keeping you in my thoughts and sending you hugs.

Hey Glynn!

I am glad you posted! I agree with Teddy... and I know you know what your gut is telling you.

I also know you are a great Mother and Grandmother. You have a strenght that is unwavering. You are doing the right things, and you are being rewarded by the special bond you will have with your grandboys.

I also pray your daughter will accept the help when it's offered.
Hugs
K

What do you do when you see two people under the influence of drugs making wrong decision after wrong decision? When you see them making things worse for themselves (and it is bad as it is). When their expectation is that we will help them keep their family together?

Edited: I should add we are willing to assist both to detox/rehab and see that as the way we can help. Evidently they don't agree and the decisions they are making are becoming more disjointed and desperate.

Hi Glynn,
I have not been here in a while. I'm doing good, have just been really busy and have not had a lot of time to spend on the computer.

I am so sorry to hear that you are still having problems with your daughter and son in law. As an addict, and having to raise my own children, the hardest thing for parents is to let go, even if they know what is best. When my children were about the age of your grandchildren, I was finally sick enough of being sick that I allowed my father and step mom to look after my children for almost a whole year so I could go to rehab and get well. I am so glad that I did that, for everyone involved. BUT, still I fought it for years, thinking I could do it on my own. It sounds like your daughter's situation is getting worse every day. Eventually she will want help, it sometimes takes a long time for an addict to give in. Just keep letting her know that you will be there if and when she wants help, that is all you can do.

I hear the desperation in your texts, and it makes me so sad. Please know that you are in no way responsible for any of this, not one thing!!!! As addicts we are great at pointing fingers, and blaming everyone and everything, and we are extremely manipulative at making everything look away when in reality everything is falling apart.

You are such an awesome person and grandmother. Those boys are so fortunate to have you in their lives. I wish there was something else I could say that would be helpful. Just make sure the boys know they can call you any time they need to.

I so hope things get better soon, and just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you, and if you have any questions concerning addiction, please ask, and I will try and help.

Penny

__________________
Never quit quitting!

Penny - My husband and I are not sure we can allow her the time to come to that conclusion. Perhaps if the kids were in school but she claims to homeschool them which she does not. Older one is very far behind and has school phobia now - quite possibly depressed himself. There are pressing issues that the children are facing. I'm so frustrated because I never ever ever saw myself in this position. I don't want to come between the boys and their mom in any way whatsoever. I fear that is the situation we're heading toward. No jobs, legal issues - Your comments were so accurate I am sure it takes a long time for a mom to come to the conclusion that children should be with someone else and focus should be on recovery....this is just so difficult.

Glynn,

I just wanted to offer my prayers and support also. There is nothing easy about dealing with the disease and family members and as we have talked before when grandchildren are involved it can be a nightmare.

The way I look at it is ....if my grandchildren are in any danger whatsoever then we need to step in and the hell with the relationship between us and our kids. Or, between the children and their parents.

I hope you are still going to Al Anon or have a support group set up because I don't know how you could walk through this without a lot of help.

I have spent the better part of the last few days upset, either angry or crying (the tears came once I let go of the anger) because I have not talked with my sister for 9 months now. It is so sad and so insane that because we wouldn't rescue her (enable her) she wants nothing to do with me anymore. How the hell do I accept that? Well I am learning that I do it a day at a time and allow myself to feel the feelings as I go along.

You and your family are in my prayers.
Trudger

Edited- to take out some advice that I posted. I really don't know the whole situation and it is not my place to offer advice.

Living with family members in active addiction can be so frigging painful...

Again, you and yours are in my prayers today Glynn.

__________________
The Ego Seeks The Destination
The Soul Seeks The Journey

Hi again Glynn,

Wow, I didn't know that the boys were out of school and being home schooled. THis situation is worse than I thought. I'm so sorry, Glynn, I understand why you are so concerned.

I think, in this case, you should do whatever you need to do to get the boys to live with you. I'm not sure what the laws are in the state you are in, and they may be further complicated because I think your daughter lives in a different state than you?? Is this correct?
There is no way those boys should not be in school. it also sounds like they are now old enough that what their parents are doing and how they are living is having a very negative effect on them.
I know you don't want to come between your daughter and her sons, BUT I think in this case you might have to. The situation is a lot worse than I thought. She might be really angry at you, and it may hurt your relationship, but I think you should do whatever you have to, to get those boys in your custody. If you don't do something now, it will only get worse, and I would hate for you to regret not stepping in before something really bad happens.

Have you looked in to what you have to do to get custody of the boys. Glynn, is it your daughter that sometimes comes to this site and posts in the methadone section??? If it is, let me know and I will PM you.

i also agree with Trudger, if you are helping them in any way financially, that you should stop. As long as they are being supported living the way they are, nothing is going to change.

I really wish there was something I could say that would be more helpful, just wanted to let you know I am here.

Penny

__________________
Never quit quitting!

I know you don't want to come between your daughter and her sons, BUT I think in this case you might have to. The situation is a lot worse than I thought. She might be really angry at you, and it may hurt your relationship, but I think you should do whatever you have to, to get those boys in your custody. If you don't do something now, it will only get worse, and I would hate for you to regret not stepping in before something really bad happens.


Your PRIMARY concern has to be for those kids, or you will have triple trouble when they grow up. Does not matter anymore what Jenn "tells" you cause you KNOW the truth about her. You cannot sacrifice the lives of your grandson cause you feel badly about stepping in on Jenn. You would never tolerate her behavior if she did not push your buttons and make you responsible. You cannot let her do that. Let her fall Glynn cause honestly it is the only way to first keep the kids safe and second get her so desperate as to ask for help.
Love annie

__________________
Anne

Thanks Trudger - Penny - Anne - of course you're right - yes, the situation is complicated by the two states involved. And, indirectly we are financially enabling - believe me - I would not be doing even that if children were not involved. I wanted to take them out of the equation so that could stop. Anne - she has fallen - and she is going to fall further - but, her "rock bottom" is lower than I could have possibly imagined.

First : Trudger... I have missed you and did not want to bother you.. How are you dear?

I am sooo Happy Mollykins back too! Yea!

Glynn.. I feel really bad you and the entire situation. I believe you know that..and I feel for all of you. I am not even sure about rock bottoms anymore.. Emily has had so many.. and I really feel she would have a lot more of them IF she hadn't choose to get help. So what I guess I am saying is... they can hit lots of rock bottoms example being: No money, arrests, no food, no care for children, etc.. BUT until they or she get sick and tired of being sick and tired... they will keep going. and you will be shaking your head that yet again you could not have possibly imagined... it's the cycle of our loved ones that are addicts.

I know have given my advice... and your probably sick of hearing it and I probably shouldn't keep giving it... but I really thing you have to start with "normal" communication. Set some boundaries.. like no calling after 9pm or 10pm. Don't let the boys keep the phone in their room... it's not normal to be taking to their Mom at all hours of the night. If she doesn't comply.. turn it off. She needs to start working with your boundaries. Right now it's like she is still in control of all 4 of you. Start taking that control away.

Start taking the steps to have a schedule or "normalcy" with the boys. Get them to the Dr, school specialist, etc.. start taking the active steps to make this work for you to save the boys until Jenn is healthy and ready to be a proud Mom.

And don't look at keeping the boys as coming between you and Jenn... Look at that they are lucky to have you and you want to do this til Jenn can get better... and you are lucky you are in a position to do that. No many people are in that position.. so this a good thing. Keep doing what your doing... You are very strong!

(((HUGS))))
K

I will email you later tonight Kelly. Things are changing daily. Leaving on trip tomorrow morning.