hi everyone,

i've been lurking on here for a while, trying to figure out what to do... i guess i'm at a crossroads because i am absolutely sick of spending money to get extra pain pills, begging my doctor to fill script early, and taking suboxone (gives me HORRIBLE anxiety) in between getting more pills. my DOC's are percocet 10/325, vicodin 7.5/525, and oxycodone 5/325. i have a rather strange mixture of all three drugs right now, and have managed to taper myself over the past couple weeks down to about 55mg of a mixture of these (whatever i can get my hands on really). i have 510 mg left, and really want to taper off of these, as suboxone just didn't work for me -- bad anxiety, racing heart, insomnia... ugh.

so, i feel my only choice at this point is to taper from these drugs about 5 mg every couple of days, or just use them to get high and keep my methadone appointment on the 26th. i've heard horrible things about methadone, but i really don't know what to do at this point. i tried inpatient (i relapsed as soon as i got out in march), but have never tried the taper... or methadone... should i get on the methadone or try to taper from these?

could someone PLEASE give some advice with this? someone that's been faced (or should i say cornered) with this decision?!?

quick background: started with 5 mg oxycodone 1 year ago, progressed up to over 100 mg of the DOC's, then have recently cut back to about 55 mg in the past couple of days. i'm feeling okay with this dose, if a little tired and craving more.

please, could someone answer and offer help? methadone or kick this once and for all?!?!?

thanks everyone... it seems like a really supportive place to get some info and help when i actually make this decision... thanks

I know too many people who have been on methadone longer than the pills. See, I was abusing at extremely high doses (averaging 100 pills a day) so, I was detoxed with suboxone for a few days and immediately started with AA meetings. That was two and a half years ago. Haven't been dope sick since.
If you can taper, great but make sure you have someone to keep you on the up and up. Listen, withdrawal sucks. Period. The great news is that once it's over, it's over. Now, the hard part starts: staying sober. Any idea how you will manage that?
Welcome to the board and please, keep posting.

__________________
Listen: for this addict, the rooms of AA were the last thing I tried and the first thing that worked, but it only works if you work it.


Free since Thursday January 31, 2008.

Welcome to ODR rgirl. With your dose, and time on, I would go to the doc and beg for a script of clonidine and phenegran. Then go CT.

In your sits suboxone or methadone would be like using a back hoe for a counter top herb garden.

__________________

Hey there rgirl

Welcome to ODR!!! You're in the right place for help. There will be many more people to follow offering sound advice.

I have plenty of experience with the drugs you speak of, and would NOT suggest methadone or suboxone. You can create, with the help of others on this site ( specifically Jdude and some other "old-timers") a very specific taper plan that CAN work if you stick with it. It's takes a LOT of patience and discipline, but it's totally doable.

I'm completely against methadone and suboxone for numerous reasons. I was on subs for a while, and I truly believe they're worse than any opiate out there due to there half-life (how long-acting they are on the brain/body). Methadone is the same way. They are VERY difficult to get of off, so cut your losses and come up with a plan that doesn't add more meds to the mix.

If I were you, I would read the thread "Catamount's Epic Taper to Sobriety"...it really worked for him and is an excellent example of what's possible through a dedicated taper. He just ended it yesterday and we're all so proud of him.

I'm on day 5 of a cold turkey detox from norco- 10/325, 6-7 a day..I don't taper well bc I end up saying screw it, I might as well take them. I flushed my pills on Sunday and haven't looked back. It's been tough, but worth it. I've been through numerous detoxes, so I know the drill well.

If you need advice on cold-turkey, I'm your gal....along with many others.

This site is an amazing system of support. Keep posting and you will get what you need.

All my support
-K

Hey Girl....give us some down and dirty details of what you are on exactly. CT can work for you, and if you are in to mitigating things over a period of time to lessen the WD blow that can work as well. It takes a bit of dedication and planing but it can work wonders fro you. I along with other woould be happy to work with you to come up with a plan and amke it work for you. As long as you want it girl....it can work for you big time.

Please let me know of I can help.

__________________
Cheers.....living it 1 day at a time and loving it!
"Live Free or Die"
Eat my dust you "Soul Sucking Pain Pills"!!!!

wow, you guys reply fast... thanks so much! i do feel like i may have the discipline... i hope so. this whole thing has been such a horrible journey, from buying pills to provide funds for drug dealers with heroin habits, to inpatient... to... well, i haven't told my husband. i need to tell him, putting him in charge of the meds. we are going on vacation to the beach on saturday, so cold turkey at this point is not going to go very well, i don't think. i've tapered this far, so i'm hoping i can do it!

i just got a suboxone script filled, just in case. the doctor is a real quack, telling me i need to be on them for 2 years... ugh...

any help would be appreciated. and i didn't mean to corner anyone with the poll, just wanted to see how people would respond. i don't have any clonodine, but i do have vistaril (antihystamine, anti-anxiety), flexeril, and a bottle of benzo's (never really got into them, just used them in case of anxiety). i also have a bottle of ambien -- my doctor just prescribes whatever i want, i guess. so, i have to cut him loose.

i just graduated with honors with a master's in counseling -- how ironic. but, i have to do this before i go back to work counseling children. i feel like such a fraud, such a joke, being that i've been taking this crap. it started out like fun... let me take some of these and have a great time... then it got to waking up and not being able to function without them. the last year of addiction passed fast, me most of the time "highly functioning" so to speak. i felt like the pills got me through classes, helped me get to the top. now i feel like i'm at the bottom. blowing through my savings, hanging out with other people using... ugh. i just want this to end.

again, any help is appreciated, and sorry for the novel!!

Girl...I am by no means a expert...just someone who succeded due toi my dedication and will to get out of the trp I got myself in.

Suboxome can work wonders of done properly and short term. Some on here can tell you what will work well for you if you go that route.

Also if you want to take thigs slower and just taper off of your DOC...people here can also work with you on that level to get yourself clean.

Just a matter of what you feel will work for you. Do you want to be down and dirty done, or be patient and dedicated to a taper. What will you use to keep yourself clean? Lots to consinder, but all a way to accomplish the same thing. Only you know what will work for you.

Best wishes to you, and we are all here for you.

__________________
Cheers.....living it 1 day at a time and loving it!
"Live Free or Die"
Eat my dust you "Soul Sucking Pain Pills"!!!!

Oh Jeeze...it's like I'm reading my own F-ing story!!

My three cents:
1. Your doctor IS a quack. Does he want you running your own personal pharmacy? Bullocks!

2. Suboxone is the WORST option. Some have had success with it for a max of about ten days. I was told I needed to be on it for life by an expert...was on it at two diff periods for a few years. As many know, I detoxed off CT for almost a month...crawling the walls...it was HELL! The pain, oh God! so PUH-Leeeese don't listen to that moron. Two years on it and you'll be F***ed! Throw them away!!

3. Ambien? No, trash 'em. They create there own set of problems and it's just not cool.

4. Benzos? You will have a much worse addiction if you start those. They sneak up really fast and wd from them makes opiate wd seem like a picnic.

Okay, so you're going out of town. Probably NOT the best time to CT. I would take the minimal effective amount until you get back, and then CT. I would use your quack doc to get phenergen and clear your schedule for a week. Pretend you have the flu and get strong to fight this thing.

There is no easy way out. But the arsenal of meds you have will send you into a definite spiral so much deeper than where you are now.

Also, I was in the midst (had to put on hold this spring) of obtaining my MA Psych for counseling, as well as the LCDC. I know exactly what you're talking about when you feel like a fraud. Addiction does not discriminate though. Use it to your advantage to help people in the future. We can only do this if we are clean

Kepp posting...and throw out those subs@!!!
-K

okay... some good advice. i have heard some bad things about the suboxone. so, could anyone help me taper with what i have now? it was as soon as i posted that a "friend" called with pills! this may not be easier than i though, but being on vacation may not be a bad thing, as i will have no access to "up" my current supply.

i'm going to tell my husband tonight, so he can help me by holding the meds. then i think when i come home it will be cold turkey. it will be hard, but i have the whole month of august off until i start my counseling job in early september.

i have to beat this thing before i have these children in my care! any advice, ideas, etc. about how to taper would be great..

AGAIN -- i have 510 mg. of mixed opiates... percocet, oxycodone, and vicodin (the vic's are 7.5, but i counted them as 5's, because that's how they affected me).

thanks again everyone!
ps. i did read about cat's epic taper, unfortunately, i don't have that long. i have made a taper plan to end on august 1st. that's great that cat is doing so well - an inspiration to me! any help appreciated!

Girl...exactly how many of each you got? Gonna take a few of your choice to work with to taper. My taper went over 3 months...many can do it quicker by reducing 20-25% every 3-5 days but it is a faster journey to the end, with the symptoms being a bit more on the rugged side. Longer drawn out equals less symptoms...but over a longer period of time. A man much wiser than I once put it like ripping a band aide off. You tear it off fast hurts allot for a short period...peel it off slowly and it still hurts a bit....not as much....but for a longer period of time.

Personally slow and steady worked well for me. If you have the time, the resources, the dedication, the desire and proper support, it can be done. It is a long journey...but it worls fine if you want it.

Your choice, they all will get you to the same point. What works for one does not always work for the other. Many paths to the same destination.

__________________
Cheers.....living it 1 day at a time and loving it!
"Live Free or Die"
Eat my dust you "Soul Sucking Pain Pills"!!!!

rgirl..

I am a fan of CT .. Taper yourself if you want.. to a certain point, but eventually you gotta go CT..

Get your doctor to confirm that your healthy enough for it and take it on the chin..

I was lucky.. I had a friend who worked in a rehab 500 miles away, she was willing to email me 20 times a day.. Her message was that I should accept the process.. Consider it a cleansing, rather than a punishment, and realize how poisonous the drugs I was abusing where.

Drug addiction is often tied to avoiding pain, some physical but more emotional.. We need to break that attitude of running from pain.

People dont die from cold turkey, unless they have an underlying illness. To beat this, you gotta cleanse.. Its uncomfortable, but if you keep the right attitude, you wont regret it..

Hi rgirl. If you have a month I would do a hard and fast DOC taper (exponential curve) and CT, giving yourself some time to recover and get a plan in place before you start your job.

SA's CT tips:

Two words I like to give people going into their detox are Mindfulness, and Determination.

If you are going to do the CT route, then you do have just cause to take benzos. BUT it must only be small doses (1x 5mg valium every 6 hours), during the peak of your withdrawals (day 2 or 3 post jump). Don't use them to knock yourself out or sleep, just use them to take the edge off RLS and anxiety. Do not, under any circumstances, continue taking them past day 7 (dispose of them). If oyu have any reservations about being able to dose properly, don't do it.

Ambien and sedative anti-histamines aren't recommended for detoxing.

Magnesium pills are excellent for the muscles during detox. Take that along with a multivitamin x2 a day. Drink HEAPS of water.

Immodium (loperamide) is an opiod that only effects your peripheral nervous system (mainly the opiate receptors in your GI tract). Great for treating the runs and stomach cramps. It will slow down your detox process a bit but it's worth it.

Don't take any stimulants. You'll be craving sugar and chocolate... Have some, but don't over do it, a sugar crash during detox can feel like an anxiety attack. A caffeine crash can send you into meltdown.

Force yourself to eat.. Like you have the flu. Plain foods.. Fibre rich foods. Healthy, unprocessed food.

peace.

__________________
Don't be afraid to let everything flow through you. -OTT

If your doctor wants you on sub for 2 years, chances are he wants you on an insane dose as well. Perhaps without any instructions for induction.
If wanted, we can expand on the sub option some. Just need to know if it's suboxone, or subutex, and what mg. Don't need the qty....you'll need VERY few if you go that route. To avoid upregulating, and to cover the SAOs, you'd be on it about 7 days...but with alternate day dosing.

First stage...detox/taper....set the vistaril on the shelf. Do what you want with the flexeril...they won't help in detoxing.
Then take the benzos and ambien and flush them. Just in case you'd want to take them. They will not serve you well.

If you want to taper, don't mix and match. You'll prolly be best served to use the percs up first, then the vics, then oxys.
Then determine your dose schedule. Keeping the higher dose in the am.

Your best "just in case" issue might be to get a script for clonidine and phenegran.

__________________

rgirl im gona write a book sory, and as catamount and kameron know very well im awful at punctuation and dont take a breath when i talk or write lol (i love those two people by the way have ben my saviour) i am day 19 today except i used on day 12 3 tens hydro for a tattoo, but i regret it and wont ever go back. I like u hid it from my husband for 6 years i used on and off for 9 years the last 6 bad i was spending 3,000 a month or more working 60 hrs a wk i finally came clean to my husband when i was taking up to 100 pills in 24 hrs and then starting go through major wds after only 2 -3 hrs i had hit rock bottom lost my car, boat, motorcycle and my house was in forclosure which i saved thank god i called everyone in my area no one helps but one suboxen dr and he suks pusts people on it for years and as others in this form have told me it is harcore months to get off not weeks like the pain pills my docs were the exact same as urs vics hydro oxys at any size i could get 10/500, 7.5/500 and 5/500 whaever i could get in the end if somone had laid heroin in front of me i would have done it. anyways i never thought i would be here life on the other side is so much better if u read through my posts u sill see i went through the same things u did. I agree suboxen would not be good but if only used alone for a few wks i think its not hard to get off from but if used for years its horrible and i have opted to not do the suboxen especially 5 wks sober wtf is the dr. thinking. and YES get a new dr. omg yes. also i believe when u are on suboxens u cant get high from opiates not sure but that is my understading using both suboxens and opiates i think is screwing with ur body so bad. I actually read ur one post to my hsuband bc i wanted him to see i wasnt the only one he was very understand the frist 5 days then the digs came in for a day or two about the double life i had ben leading and how he didnt no me at all. this will happen i simply explained i need to get sober with or without u i cannot work on my marrage while going through detox he either needed to bite his tounge til i was able to debate with him or leave til i could work on the marrage needles to say he started to see the old me hyper energetic happy and has ben hapy with the results. alls i can say is this will be a battle forever and truely u will be happy on the other side. Pills do not just pick bad people they pick good honest hardworking people like us. I wish u so much luck please keep us posted ur story has intrigued me PEACE michaeli y

Don't beat yourself up for what you did in the name of feeding your habit; I blew through a six figure trust in a matter of two years. Now, I live day by day in every aspect.
Kick your addiction to the curb and let the baling begin!

__________________
Listen: for this addict, the rooms of AA were the last thing I tried and the first thing that worked, but it only works if you work it.


Free since Thursday January 31, 2008.