I've been reading here for a few days. I'm a prescription pain med abuser. I get scrips for approx 1300-1400 #10 pills (norcos, percocets, morphine or oxi's) every month from many docs. All cash pay of course. Over the last few months I've been averaging 500-700 mg of norco and/or percocets per day. Of course the tylenol has probably all ready killed me, who knows how bad things are in the kidney/liver department. I started out like everyone else taking it just for pain. I am such an addictive personality type that it didn't take too long for it to escalate to totally unreasonable levels. I think this addiction episode has been going on for 2-3 years with two very short interuptions. In the begining when I was only taking about 100 mg per day I could quit for a week or so pretty easily. I always though it was like having the flu, no big deal. But these days when I run oun out or have to taper down the sickness is pretty mind blowing! I have decided I need to quit and am very afraid of blowing it because I'm a lot better at that than I am at suceeding. I read enough to get a feel for what method I would try and because of my typical intake I am going with the tapering approach. I started yesterday with 480 gm norco over five dosings like this 12, 8, 8, 8, 12 (10mg pills norco or perc). I know this probably sounds like a joke to some of you but I was detoxing even at that level. I wanted to start the first day with 400mg and blew it already by taking 80 mg more than my plan. I woke up very sick. I'm cutting it down by 20% per day as was recommended by someone on this site who really seemed pretty hard core and also like he knew what he was talking about. I'm afraid of course that I will blow it again and again. I need your support. I'm afraid of the DT sickness. I'm married and my wife doesn't know what's going on with me. It would kill her, and our marriage. I'm not a kid or even a youngster anymore. DOB 1959! A little old to playing here! That is me though, I've played here before. Before this episode I was clean and sober for 11-12 years, maybe longer. I really thought I'd never be here again! Very arrogant of someone as addictive as I am. My tapering plan is 15 days long. Does anyone have any idea with my level of usage how long the physical sickness part typically lasts? Back in the 80-120 mg per day days I'd be fine and happy in three short days! Any chance of that now? I hope I made sense, and that I wasn't too long winded. I work and so far haven't screwed that up too bad. Thanks again, and any support is a God send(literally).

Welcome Drperc......The taper plan is reasonable for some folks. In your sits,I'd try a quick low dose stay on the sub. With the tylenol and doc shopping, you may not be able to afford the time of a taper plan.

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thanks for responding. somehow my health is still fine but who knows it certainly can't last forever taking that much tylenol. i might end up trying your suggestion if i can't stick to this taper schedule. i keep hearing (reading) how the fear of withdrawal is worse the the dt itself. i hope that's the case!
Thanks again.

drperc -
any chance you can go inpatient to detox....?

as an addict, I found tapering impossible. I had to go somewhere to be separated from my drugs....and it was only for 4 days, but came out clean (albeit still kinda dopesick).

so....is it an option for you? jdude's suggestion of a short course on sub seems spot-on as well.

peace
janice

Hey Dr,

Just wanted to pop in and say welcome. You are exactly right, the fear of WDs is far worse than the actual. And you know something else, lots of times we suffer so much LONGER getting ready to stop, than when we do. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you the first 3 days won't hurt, because they will. But gradually it will get better.

Please listen to Jay. I feel your most immediate concern, over EVERYTHING else should be to stop this tylenol, now! You are at a dangerously high dose, and I'm just afraid you might never make it to a taper. You see, a taper, for most of us, while sounding logical, is a very, very hard thing to do. By the very nature of our addiction, if we have 'em, we take 'em, period. You even noted in your post about slipping, so no its not easy.

Finally, you should consider involving your wife. She would be valuable support in helping you through this. Like me, you are choosing to suffer in silence, but its not easy, believe me. And you think this would end your marriage? We are human, we make mistakes. If this would push her away, I wonder how close you are now. Just some things to think on. Take care.

O

your probably an addict when you watch Lord of the Rings and when the little dude keeps rubbing "precious" you know, without a doubt it is an OC-160

Hi Dr
I am tapering & it is really very HARD. Best case scenario is to have someone hold them for you & give you what you need either for the entire day or dose by dose. Is there anyone you can tell? I count out the pills & put them in small envelopes that are dated as soon as I get the refill. That envelope is all I take for the day. If I see an entire bottle I will take more, tried it & failed that way. No cheating (also hard). I came from 30 norco's a day to 8 so far. I am a little sick each time I reduce but nothing compared to ct (which I tried & failed).
I think the only way for you is to have someone hold them or do as the wiser ones above me on this thread said. They are the experts on getting & staying clean.
Major Good Luck to you..
R

Robyn is right. If you chose a taper, have someone hold those things. Of course, I did this one time too. Can you guess what I did? Why sure, I ran around the "back door" and had my own personal stash. Boy, I pulled one over, didn't I. This is one reason I would take another route. Not to kick you, but I doubt you will be able to do a taper, I couldn't. That being said, if you decide this is the way, I'm behind you 100%. Very best to ya!

O

your probably an addict when you watch Lord of the Rings and when the little dude keeps rubbing "precious" you know, without a doubt it is an OC-160

Dr. Perc..

I think tapering would be tough sledding.. I think every addict has tried to cut back more than once. I couldn't do it, but I give praise to anyone who can do it ..

My style is to tell all your doctors your an addict and are quitting, and tell them all about the other doctors too.. Burn your supply ..

That will start a count down.. After that, don't take the last of the pills, throw them away.. For me, its about taking back control over the drugs..

If you can do that .. I believe the detox will be easier than you think ..

Go into the detox feeling in control and strong and you will be surprised..

Thanks to everyone for your words and encoragement. This tapering thing feels just like normal usage, funny how that works, huh? You know, it's like today I'm going to take less for absolutley sure... Okay, tomorrow, for sure I'm going to take less!! As you might see I'm actually very good at this tapering thing. I have some really cool excel spreadsheets which I seem to be revising every few hours. In all seriousness, because really, this is very serious, I'm just scared to death and approaching the point of no return with regard to any chance of tapering off. In other words I'll run out, if I don't figure something out. My problem with IP or IOP is that I just did that a little while ago (October 2009). I'm going to end up tapering with very few drugs in which to do it or just going CT? I have a question, please someone who really knows, answer this for me. I have both oxycodone and hydrocodone. I've been taking the hydro for weeks now. Can you use one to detox from the other, or are they too similar for that to do anything benificial? What I'm asking is, if I tossed the hydro out and took the oxy for 3 days prior to going ct, would this be any different than just taking the hydro and stopping ct?
Yours truly,
the man with the iron willpower
Also, for comedic value I attached my taper plan with I am rigorously following.

Date Daily Bal Day
2/15/2010 245 Mon
2/16/2010 48 197 Tue
2/17/2010 56 141 Wed
2/18/2010 80 61 Thu
2/19/2010 30 181 Fri
2/20/2010 27 154 Sat
2/21/2010 25 129 Sun
2/22/2010 22 107 Mon
2/23/2010 20 87 Tue
2/24/2010 18 69 Wed
2/25/2010 15 54 Thu
2/26/2010 13 41 Fri
2/27/2010 11 30 Sat
2/28/2010 9 21 Sun
3/1/2010 7 14 Mon
3/2/2010 5 9 Tue
3/3/2010 4 5 Wed
3/4/2010 3 2 Thu
3/5/2010 2 0 Fri

Also, another question for the experts. Will immodium help with withdrawals for issues other than diarrhea?

Oxycodone and hydrocodone are fairly equivalent. You wouldn't be gaining anything by taking one instead of the other. I started out on hydrocodone, progressed to morphine, then oxycontin, then various others. ... If your hydro and oxy are short-acting, then they're basically the same.

Just to add to the chorus, I could never taper off a full-agonist either. I tried for years, over and over, and always fiddled the doses and wound up running out early.

I did succeed in tapering off suboxone. I was on a different drug than you, but up to about your levels before I found a very trustworthy and conservative detox doc who prescribed suboxone. Getting onto suboxone is a bit tricky because you have to be in moderate withdrawal before taking it, but this physician was one of the ones who saved my life. The only other option for me was rehab, and I didn't want to leave my family for a month.

Have you checked your area for a suboxone doc? --I found mine by calling my PCP and asking her for a referral to a physician who could coordinate outpatient detox, and then calling the best rehab in town and asking the same thing. They both pointed me toward the guy who helped me out.

with every good wish, --G

p.s.: if you choose to go CT, and if your drugs are short-acting, then you can expect to be in serious withdrawal for between 7-10 days. After that, the body continues to settle down, and it takes time to feel "normal" again. I've been off daily opiates for 15 months and I feel about as normal as I ever have--I'm physically more fit; I can sleep fairly well; and I don't have cravings or obsessions anymore. A lot of this is due to my putting in place a plan to take care of myself after detox, and then doing that plan.

p.p.s.: Imodium will only help for loose bowels. The active ingredient does not cross the blood-brain barrier. Some people have reported other symptomatic relief from Imodium, but I never experienced that.

Thank you guinevere !!!!!!!

Hey Dr. Perc !

Welcome to the community!

I am so glad to see guinevere chimed in, she is a WEALTH of information and encouragement.

Another thing you might want to try in Clonidine which is cheap and helps with the anxiety, a bit with the sweats, and RLS. ALso helps with sleep too. There is a 'sticky' here on with some more info on the Clonodine. It is an old fashion BP medication, and you have to be careful of getting your blood pressure too low.

Keep posting and read other people's threads, looks like you have done some of that already.

Just remember that this is doable, kinda tough in the beginning but the detox WILL PASS. Take it one day at a time and know that we are hear for you. For information and encouragement.....we have all been there. And all who have been successful are so happy that we have re-claimed our lives back. Freedom truly is worth fighting for and believe me it is a battle, but one that you will see, will give you a life far better than the one chasing that dragon all the time.

Keep posting and glad that you are here!

__________________
-Peabody xoxo


"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending."

Please help, I'm totally scared. What does it mean when your doc says he's going to do a dea report?

That not good.. It basically means they are onto your scheme of going to more than one doctor for class V narcotics.. If these doctors are in the same state its even easier to get caught. I had a friend in the same situation and ended up losing ALL meds and doing some time.. Just because you pay cash doesnt mean its still not in black and white.. I dont meann to scare you but you asked...

Best of Luck....