Thread: Using Heroin ontop of Subutex for Switching Over

Please use this forum to discuss using Heroin ontop of subutex. The literature suggests that its impossible to get any effect from opiates after taking 8mg+ of subutex as all the opiate receptors in the brain are supposedly saturated. In contrast to this, I have used Heroin ontop of 16mg of subutex in the first couple of days and it helped tremendously with the anxiety and physical symptoms. I don't know why this was, perhaps because the bupe was taking a while to reach saturation point. Perhaps bupe affects the kappa opiod receptors more than the mu receptors (as Heroin affects mostly)?

The great thing was that it really made the switch over much much easier. But care has to be taken not to cause a precipitated withdrawal, so at least two hours must pass after taking the subutex before using H ontop. All thoughts/comments welcome.

NF:

I just have to let you know, I have done this as well. I am the same exact way -- the anxiety gets to me. The first time I was induced, it was hell. I felt like **** for a while. It was not like everyone else. Everyone else seems to be able to switch and feel great within hours. I didn't go into precip wd, but I didn't feel good either.

This is what I've done, say I've used in the morning at 6 am. Around 5 pm I will take 2 suboxone and wait. Usually there is no change and I really feel anxious, so I will do a hit of H and feel fine for the rest of the day. I will sleep and when I wake up, if I feel ok I wont use, if I feel ansty, I will use and then wait again until 5 pm and take the sub. Usually after a few days (about 3 days) I won't feel like I need to take the edge off. The time between hits gets farther and farther until I feel good enough.

It doesnt help that the Sub makes you jumpy as well. Like your on speed. I think you know what i mean.

Tell me what your objective is? Using both? I'm guessing you are planning to quit but easing into it? Best wishes
CG

NF,
I know exactly where your coming from but the problem with having a toot or a blurt whilst easing yourself into a subutex programme is, that when you decide to reduce from the bupe, is that you might or will be tempted to take some gear again when the reduction W/D's kick in. I just hope your only using gear to ease you into a successful subby withdrawalal programme. Why not use a couple of vally's instead.
Good luck and all my support from a fellow subutex user. 12 yrs of MMT until switching to subutex. Must admit that I plan not to have my subby sometimes for a toot, but now I have a relapse prevention programme in place, so hopefully with the support from this forum I can keep going without dabbling. BTW where abouts in the UK are you from. Take care.:)

Mind occupation is the key to success.

Thanks everyone so much for your inputs!!

mumu- so glad to hear someone like me out there. Its been a while since i used this method and i know its easy to slip up. What's the minimum time in between the sub and H and vica versa, what do you reckon?

If I start this friday perhaps i can have my last hit at work around 3pm then meet up with my girlfriend around 6 (she's gonna keep me company) and around 9 have my first dose of subs (approx 4mg). I'll wait 20mins and if i feel worse i'll wait it out 2hrs and have a hit of H. If i feel slightly better i'll take 4mg more subs every 20mins. Do you think i'll be able to get stabilized on the subs or well enough for work by next Monday?

CowGirl- I'm trying to get off H but find it very hard, the depression and anxiety destroys me so i want to ease onto bupe gently

Agent Subby- Dont see Vally's come up very often :( Heard that clonidine would really help but i dont know where i can get that either... cant seem to find an online place that doesnt either seem dodgy or needs a script. I'm in Tun Wells, Kent.. how bout you? I want to taper down the subs so i can make the 200mg+ that i acquired last as long as poss... i dont have an infinite supply and the drug clinics around here only do methadone coz of the cost.

Thanks again everyone!!

quote:Originally posted by NeedleFixation

Thanks everyone so much for your inputs!!

mumu- so glad to hear someone like me out there. Its been a while since i used this method and i know its easy to slip up. What's the minimum time in between the sub and H and vica versa, what do you reckon?

If I start this friday perhaps i can have my last hit at work around 3pm then meet up with my girlfriend around 6 (she's gonna keep me company) and around 9 have my first dose of subs (approx 4mg). I'll wait 20mins and if i feel worse i'll wait it out 2hrs and have a hit of H. If i feel slightly better i'll take 4mg more subs every 20mins. Do you think i'll be able to get stabilized on the subs or well enough for work by next Monday?

CowGirl- I'm trying to get off H but find it very hard, the depression and anxiety destroys me so i want to ease onto bupe gently

Agent Subby- Dont see Vally's come up very often :( Heard that clonidine would really help but i dont know where i can get that either... cant seem to find an online place that doesnt either seem dodgy or needs a script. I'm in Tun Wells, Kent.. how bout you? I want to taper down the subs so i can make the 200mg+ that i acquired last as long as poss... i dont have an infinite supply and the drug clinics around here only do methadone coz of the cost.

Thanks again everyone!!

NF. I switched to subutex from a heavy gear habit in April. I was on and off it for 12 years (still am) but when i made the switch I put an 8mg subby under me tongue approx. 8 hours after my last fix. I was on the strong Indian white gear as well (1 gramme a day,snorting)as I'd spent the winter in Goa. TBHWY I felt pretty rough for 2 days but nothing like an H cluck! You'll probably get the infamous bad bupe headache but apart from that 8mg's held me. After 3 days you'll start to feel really good (honeymoon period), but this is the time when you can start reducing. If you check out Ratchetts taper plan on the bupe FAQ's thread, then I think you'll have more than enough with the 200mg's. If not send me a PM through my e.mail and we'll sort something out. Hang on in there man and keep posting. Go for it tomorrow and you'll feel fine on Monday. Good luck.:)
BTW I'm a northener from sunny Manchester.

Mind occupation is the key to success.

I started my sub last night!!! wow i didn't think i'd do it!! I'm gonna post a fresh forum if you wanna read about it click my name and check out the new post. Without this forum i'd be lost, i spend a lot of time alone, though i'm lucky to have a great girlfriend who's with me at weekends (except sat day when she works) so thank you all! :)

So here we are on tuesday... i should be way better by now but things have been very up and down. I can't seem to get stabilized on the subs, i took 6mg this morning but by lunch i was feeling pretty terrible. I've been using gear in the evening to fight off the anxiety ontop of the subs and i thought by today i'd be ok and fully on the subs without need for any more needles. But i get withdrawals still so i need to take subs and it seems the more i take the worse i feel. grrrr.

quote:Originally posted by NeedleFixation

So here we are on tuesday... i should be way better by now but things have been very up and down. I can't seem to get stabilized on the subs, i took 6mg this morning but by lunch i was feeling pretty terrible. I've been using gear in the evening to fight off the anxiety ontop of the subs and i thought by today i'd be ok and fully on the subs without need for any more needles. But i get withdrawals still so i need to take subs and it seems the more i take the worse i feel. grrrr.

Dude. Make a choice and stick with it. If you're shooting up in the evening and then taking sub, the sub's probably just putting you in precipitated withdrawal. It's not meant to be taken along with your drug of choice. It's supposed to replace your drug of choice.

-- Guts

quote:Originally posted by NeedleFixation

So here we are on tuesday... i should be way better by now but things have been very up and down. I can't seem to get stabilized on the subs, i took 6mg this morning but by lunch i was feeling pretty terrible. I've been using gear in the evening to fight off the anxiety ontop of the subs and i thought by today i'd be ok and fully on the subs without need for any more needles. But i get withdrawals still so i need to take subs and it seems the more i take the worse i feel. grrrr.

Like the man says. The subby will put you in precipitated withdrawal if taken with D.O.C. Also when doing this, more is less in the case of subutex.
Take care:)

Mind occupation is the key to success.

quote:Originally posted by NeedleFixation

So here we are on tuesday... i should be way better by now but things have been very up and down. I can't seem to get stabilized on the subs, i took 6mg this morning but by lunch i was feeling pretty terrible. I've been using gear in the evening to fight off the anxiety ontop of the subs and i thought by today i'd be ok and fully on the subs without need for any more needles. But i get withdrawals still so i need to take subs and it seems the more i take the worse i feel. grrrr.

Hey-

Like I say: It takes what it takes. I've never used needles (yet) but I've heard that it's as addicting as the drug you shoot...I guess I'm saying, I hear you.

But, you've gotta get off the fence Bro. Plug in with some folks who have a little clean time, keep trying til you get it. The desire to end the insanity is a big part of it, and it's clear to me that YOU WANT IT!

Now, do whatcha gotta do...we'll help. Thanks for the update.

Mic

"It takes what it takes"

quote:Originally posted by micster

Like I say: It takes what it takes. I've never used needles (yet) but I've heard that it's as addicting as the drug you shoot...

If its anything like getting a tattoo, then yes, the needles are addicting! Once you get one- you want more............

Mary- Pop is Soda!
Opiate free 8/3/05, Methadone Free 3/17/06
2006 is all about having BIG fun!