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  1. #1
    wildstorm008 is offline Junior Member
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    Default 24 Hours ...How long to avoid Precip. Withdrawal?

    Hi everyone--I was just wondering...how long do I actually have to wait to take Suboxone to avoid precipitated withdrawal? 12 hours after my last dose of DOC, my legs don't wanna stand still, my heart is beating fast, my pupils are like black dinner plates. I know that if I wait longer, the withdrawal will get worse, but it's VERY hard to do this...time seems to crawl and all I can do is sit in front of the telly and yawn and let my eyes water. So is there anyone out there who's only waited 12 hours? My doc told me 24, but I read a couple messages suggesting a shorter time is possible....thanks!

  2. #2
    readyornot is offline Senior Member
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    i've dosed after 12 hrs from my DOC with sub but my last dose of the DOC was small. What was your last dose and how much. Its good to wait rather than risk the sudden, full blown WD. Its a tough choice and its hard for someone to advise you on that. You didn;t have to be monitored by your Doctor?

    Let us know

    Opiate free 5/06/06

  3. #3
    wildstorm008 is offline Junior Member
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    My last dose was 50mg of hydrocodone...The doc gave me a urine test (it was obviously positive)...I'm just scared of precipitated withdrawal since once it hits you you're kinda up a creek and just have to writhe around on the carpet, more or less...but on the other hand, the way I feel right now ain't exactly so hot either. And I made a mistake--I have Subutex, not suboxone.

  4. #4
    readyornot is offline Senior Member
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    Whoa! Are you sure its Subutex? I don't think there is an antagonist in it? I only took Suboxone and it DOES. How did you get it? Did they just send you home with it? How many mg did they tell you to start at?? Read these threads on this site! There is more info on this site than anywhere else. What was your daily dose of the hydro? Sub can be tricky. With suboxone, the general consensus is start lowwwwwww. Back in the day, I would go from 140-200 mg of OC to 4mg of suboxone the 1st dose and then get down to 2mg a day after that spread out throught the day. i split my 2mg tabs into 1/4 crumbs. Make sure you know if its suboxone or subutex!

    Opiate free 5/06/06

  5. #5
    wildstorm008 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Ready--
    Thanks for your quick responses...I've gone ahead and taken hydro until I know for sure how long I have to wait is--if it's really 24 hours I need to get ahold of some things to help me through. It's subutex, small white tabs with B2 on them (2mg tabs). The doc told me to take my last dose roughly 24 hours before my appt on Monday, but she went ahead and gave me the rx, so I figured why not just quit now. She also said if the symptoms got really bad I should call her and she'd determine if I could start...but she said 24 hours is usually the shortest you can go before switching, and I just hope that's not true. My daily dosage is around 130-150mg of hydrocodone (or 120 of oxycodone) formulated in low-APAP pills. I take N-acetyl-cysteine (the stuff they give in emergency rooms to counteract tylenol poisoning) to prevent any liver damage, since I'm at the upper reaches of an acceptable dose. You are correct, subutex has no antagonist in it. It's pure buprenorphine. The doc said she'd start at 2mg and taper up until I no longer felt bad, so...I guess that's it. God, I only hope I only have to wait 12 hours!

  6. #6
    readyornot is offline Senior Member
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    I wish some of these sub pros would get on here and talk! There are alot of people that know more than i do.
    Anyways, my question is if there is no antagonist in it, will it throw you in w/d??? I thought that was the deal. Its just another opiate without the Naltwhatever. But I could be WRONG. So hold oFF! Soeeone else should be here soon![8)]


    Opiate free 5/06/06

  7. #7
    Mic Guest

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    quote:Originally posted by wildstorm008

    Hi Ready--
    Thanks for your quick responses...I've gone ahead and taken hydro until I know for sure how long I have to wait is--if it's really 24 hours I need to get ahold of some things to help me through. It's subutex, small white tabs with B2 on them (2mg tabs). The doc told me to take my last dose roughly 24 hours before my appt on Monday, but she went ahead and gave me the rx, so I figured why not just quit now. She also said if the symptoms got really bad I should call her and she'd determine if I could start...but she said 24 hours is usually the shortest you can go before switching, and I just hope that's not true. My daily dosage is around 130-150mg of hydrocodone (or 120 of oxycodone) formulated in low-APAP pills. I take N-acetyl-cysteine (the stuff they give in emergency rooms to counteract tylenol poisoning) to prevent any liver damage, since I'm at the upper reaches of an acceptable dose. You are correct, subutex has no antagonist in it. It's pure buprenorphine. The doc said she'd start at 2mg and taper up until I no longer felt bad, so...I guess that's it. God, I only hope I only have to wait 12 hours!
    Hi There. How are you feeling? What I'd recommend, is taking your last hit of hydro early to mid evening. That way you sleep through much of the waiting period. The numbers I've heard, range from 15-24 (ish) hours from last opiate to first dose of Sub. However, although time is important, what's even more critical is to be in withdrawls. Subutex is generally used at induction cuz of precip wd concerns. As you know, Subutex has no naloxone (antagonist) but it's the bupe itself (as a partial agonist) that also affects wd's.

    So.....whatcha think? Little hydro tonight, sleep, wake up (hopefully ;))wait a bit, then take your Sub....what were the doc's instructions in terms of dialing in the right dose? It's better to start low (2,4,6 mgs. range) wait 90 minutes before evaluating the need for more. Bupe is a very weird drug: at low doses, it acts more like an agonist (the opiates that kicked our butts) and at higher doses, the antagonist properties seem to dominate...

    What are your long-term plans to stay clean? Have you done this before?

    Anyways, we're very glad you're here. I had a really easy transition from oxy to Sub, and I bet you'll have the same...

    Mic

    "It takes what it takes"

  8. #8
    wildstorm008 is offline Junior Member
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    Hi Micster,
    Thanks a lot for your response, I really appreciate it. I tried the early-mid evening approach yesterday...took last dose at 6pm, then around 12:30am took 2mg of Lunesta to keep me from waking up all twitchy (you probably know how hard it is to sleep when your legs are miming a marathon under the covers). It worked, but then I woke up at 4:30am, feeling like ****, anxious, rapid heart rate, legs twitchy...so that was like 10 hours after my last dose. So...I took more DOC and thought "well i'll sleep till noon, then just putz around all day until 10pm-12 (that would give me 18, 20 hours--4am to 10 or 12pm--and i feel confident I could take the subutex at that point). Well, I woke up at 12, feeling somewhat twitchy, made it to 2pm, and took my DOC... The problem is I've got nothing to do. I'm a college student in summer school taking 1 class which is quite easy. My roommates are gone, no one will be here for a week, so I just kinda pace around watching weekend tv and plotting my next withdrawal attempt. The other problem is I have supplies of DOC sitting around...I should really toss them away, but I have refills, so, you know...Maybe I should start when I'm totally out of DOC with no option to use. I was just looking at movie listings, I think I will go see a 10:10 flick and that will kill 2hours, at least. My last dose of DOC was at 2pm, so if I stop NOW, I'll be all twitchy by 12...and I would have to make it through the night in withdrawals, and I'm frankly not sure lunesta would cover my state. On the plus side, if I slept until even 8am tomorrow morning I could dose as soon as I woke up. SORRY for the length of this post, you can tell I'm really worried about this.

  9. #9
    luvlifemore is offline Senior Member
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    The SAMHSA Buprenorphine Treatment Guide says 12-24hrs with withdrawal symptoms present.

    Sorry, I know you're hopeing for a more precise answer.

  10. #10
    luvlifemore is offline Senior Member
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    The Guide says take 4 mgs. and wait 2 hours.
    Are withdrawal symptoms relieved?

    (I know Ratch - you think the Guide is useless.)

    The guide is written by doctors that have never used sub. Just take it with a grain of salt and take as little as possible. You won't be comfortable the first day. Don't take that to mean more will make you feel better. It won't. Keep reading and flush the stash as proof that you really mean it when you say you want to get off this roller coaster. Suggest usng it for detox not maintenance. Unless you've already tried to quit a hundred times.

  11. #11
    Mic Guest

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    quote:Originally posted by wildstorm008

    Hi Micster,
    Thanks a lot for your response, I really appreciate it. I tried the early-mid evening approach yesterday...took last dose at 6pm, then around 12:30am took 2mg of Lunesta to keep me from waking up all twitchy (you probably know how hard it is to sleep when your legs are miming a marathon under the covers). It worked, but then I woke up at 4:30am, feeling like ****, anxious, rapid heart rate, legs twitchy...so that was like 10 hours after my last dose. So...I took more DOC and thought "well i'll sleep till noon, then just putz around all day until 10pm-12 (that would give me 18, 20 hours--4am to 10 or 12pm--and i feel confident I could take the subutex at that point). Well, I woke up at 12, feeling somewhat twitchy, made it to 2pm, and took my DOC... The problem is I've got nothing to do. I'm a college student in summer school taking 1 class which is quite easy. My roommates are gone, no one will be here for a week, so I just kinda pace around watching weekend tv and plotting my next withdrawal attempt. The other problem is I have supplies of DOC sitting around...I should really toss them away, but I have refills, so, you know...Maybe I should start when I'm totally out of DOC with no option to use. I was just looking at movie listings, I think I will go see a 10:10 flick and that will kill 2hours, at least. My last dose of DOC was at 2pm, so if I stop NOW, I'll be all twitchy by 12...and I would have to make it through the night in withdrawals, and I'm frankly not sure lunesta would cover my state. On the plus side, if I slept until even 8am tomorrow morning I could dose as soon as I woke up. SORRY for the length of this post, you can tell I'm really worried about this.
    Yes, you're right. That's a huge problem. As to whether you blow thru all your DOC and then start Sub, OR toss all your pills, cancel refills, etc., etc, is YOUR call. I urge you however, to do one or the other, cuz IMO, doing a Sub taper/quit, (with hydro/oxy/whatever around) is a recipe for failure. Don't you think?

    Don't apologize for the lengths of your post! That's what we're here for. I dunno how you're feeling about the induction, or Sub in general.....so I urge you to read as much as you can here on the forum. Also use the search function above to home in on specific related subjects.

    Let us know your decision so we can help you.

    Mic

    "It takes what it takes"

  12. #12
    wildstorm008 is offline Junior Member
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    First, thanks again to everyone who's responding, I truly appreciate it. Ok, here's my tenative plan: will dose now, at 7, and again at 12am (that's my typical day.) DOC usually keeps me awake, so I'll take lunesta (4mg instead of typical 2) at around 4...taking so late will hopefully keep me asleep until 1 or so... that's 13 hours. If I don't feel withdrawn enough, I suppose I can find something to do until 3 or so. If I can make it till 3pm tomorrow...that's 15 hours...hopefully it will be enough. I'll keep enough DOC for 2 more doses and pitch the rest. Thoughts? And again, thanks for the time!

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