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  1. #1
    hof2010 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Been on Sub 4 and 1/2 years. Tried jumping twice recently first time from 4mg which I lasted 3 days. Second jump I had tapered rather quickly from 4mgs down to 2mgs then jumped(wouldn't really call in a taper as much a reduction in dose). Made it six days then.

    In all the time I have taken Sub I maintained at 8mgs. Somedays I took more depending on my depth of chronic pain but I soon learned that increasing my dose was more due to learned behavior than getting any real reflief from my pain by increasing my sub. More is less when it comes to sub.

    Two months ago I started back on 3mgs. Took that for a month then saw my Dr. Told the nurse I wanted to go down to 2mgs a day for the next 30 days. The Dr came in the room and said lets see, you need 2mgs twice a day correct? I said no, once a day. Duh. So I am taking 2mgs for the next 30 days.

    My question is where should I go from here. At my next visit do I drop to 1mg or should I reduce at .25 intervals from this point on until I am done. There are no time constraints on my drop intervals. My Dr has had me reducing every 30 days because that is when I see him and also he slowed me down because I almost lost it the two times I tried jumping a bit too fast, in our opinions.

    I really do want off this bill of goods I was sold over four years ago. Hell, I was initially prescribed 40 mgs per day of Subutex but never took that much. I had been taking Methadone for ten years up to that point, not to mention my previous ten year oxy and/or hydro habit.

    When I inducted to Subutex I had been taking 400mg a day of Methadone for a few years at that point. Not registering at all on the COWS scale, I did go into some seriously horrific ans insane precipitated wds, so I suppose my first Dr was giving me 40 mgs of Subutex in an attempt to try and load up my opiate receptors with Sub, but when going through precipitated Methadone wds only time(about 10 days for me) will see you through. The weaker partial agonist opioid, Subutex, regardless of the dose, could not offer even a midly adequate replacement for all that Methadone it had dislodged from my receptor sites within mere minutes.

    I survived that ordeal and it has been 4 and 1/2 years since I took Methadone and it has been 14 and 1/2 years since I took the pain pills that landed my butt in the Methadone clinic in the first place. Second worse decision of my drug life with number one being checking into a 28 day rehab thus having to out myself. It is hard to hide for 28 days when relying on company insurance.

    When I started Sub over four years ago I did not have the benefit of all the stories regarding people's attempt at getting off this drug. I do want off, I just hope that there is someway I can do this taper process in such a way as to minimize as best I can the aftershocks of getting off of it. I am not stupid enough to think I can go through this pain free and emotionless. I am just hoping there is a better way of going from 2mgs to zero, than the previous two ways I failed at going to zero.
    Last edited by hof2010; 04-03-2011 at 02:28 AM.

  2. #2
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    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Hey Hof....sounds like to the 30 day plan is working for you. But the 2mg point for a large percentage of folks needs a little more determination. It's most effective at around the 2mg point.

    Have you tried to split the dose into 2 doses, one in the am....then another about mid-day...or at least no closer then 3-4 hours B4 bedtime?
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  3. #3
    Rulebrkr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    For me going from 2 to 1 wasn't bad. Even tho the half life is like 36 hrs it took me 6-7 days to feel the drop. And I started split dosing - 1 mg am and 1 mg pm then dropped the pm (usually because I forgot and when I did remember it was too close to bedtime and subs kept me awake). From 1 mg I dropped to half mg, again splitting and then eliminating the pm dose. I for sure was not consistent in the pm dose. I had a hard time adjusting to .5 and had to stay there for about 2 and a half weeks. Cravings came and I went nuts so to speak. Very bubble-headed. The drop to .25 wasn't bad, and I jumped after 2 weeks at .25 with only sweaty palms and laziness. Still lazy but trying to get through it.

    My advice is to take it slow and let your body adjust before making another drop. Like I said it took a full week or so for me to feel it. You may be different but don't rush it.

  4. #4
    Rulebrkr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Also I'm 2 weeks off, still unmotivated but thankful it's just that. And the cravings started bad a few days ago. Please have a plan in place because I'm finding sobriety it extremely boring and it's that boredom that gets me in trouble.

  5. #5
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    tenn_smoothie is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    if only lack of energy and boredom were my only difficulty, i'd have this thing beat. not to diminish the problems of others because i think we all have our own particular pain that makes it hard to get off the sub and then to stay clean ........................ and i've relapsed plenty between the pills and alcohol.

    i.m at 1.5mg and feeling very stuck here, though i feel pretty good at getting myself this low. i've also been on the sub for 4+ years and i'm pretty sure that being a long-term user just multiplies the difficulties of getting to zero.

    i've been at 3 - 4mg subutex for most of those 4 years, with some periods of switching back to SAO's in my attempts to get off the sub. have had my shares of ups & downs, but this is the lowest i've been at and i've been here for a month. i've even had some intermittent days at 1.25, but was not able to maintain that dose.

    i'm approaching a two-month break from work that will start at the end of may, so once again, i have a summer of opportunity. i've had more success dropping my dose in the summer away from work since my job is currently extremely stressful. if i could manage to get my self to 1mg per day by the start of summer, i'd have a chance, so any suggestions to get from 1.5 to 1mg even would be appreciated.

  6. #6
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    gettingbetter is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Boredom gets me in trouble too ... you working a recovery plan at all? What about anything else? I have to be structured and busy or I'm screwed and end up freaking out. Exercise classes, coffee with friends, work, any kind of meeting, stepwork, yoga programs, planning high school reunions ... all those things have saved my butt. I offer to babysit a lot, too, esp. my nieces and nephews ... the best thing to do I find is to do something for someone else. Life's fun. You got sober to live it, right? I get the negative feelings ... start small and build momentum. Best advice I can give you.

    And oh yeah: CONGRATS on the focus and two weeks off !! MAJOR accomplishment!! The above advice is just to build on that. Hang in there, thanks for writing, keep posting!

    love
    dani

  7. #7
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    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Hey Rich! I don't remember if you have a family member or loved one that could maybe help you with a blind taper? Is that an option?
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  8. #8
    Rulebrkr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Are you on films? I was. Here is what my doctor told me to do when he agreed to start my taper: take a 2mg film and cut it in half and take your 1mg. The other 1 mg he said to make two cuts like a + (so now it's in .25 mg doses) and to take 3 of those, essentially removing only .25 mg every 7-10 days. IMPORTANT: he said a LOT of people feel a .25 mg drop and if I do, and am the slightest bit uncomfortable, further cut that 1 mg into an X. So cut a + then an X so you will essentially have 8 slivers from the 1mg piece. Then instead of removing .25 every 7-10 days only remove an 8th every 7-10 days. He said it would take longer but would not be painful and most of all to listen to your body as to when to drop. A drop every 3-4 days is often too rapid for some and as I said it took me 6-7 days to start to feel anything, with each drop. Then I would hold until I stabilized and felt ok then drop again.

    I didn't have problems with the .25 drops and it was pretty difficult to cut the films that small so I can only imagine how hard it would be to cut em even further. But still, keep removing those small slivers, hold, and do it again when you feel better and you should be fine.

    A few years ago being sub-stupid I jumped from 4 mg. Had no idea I was supposed to taper nor could I figure out what in the world was wrong with me. Swear I had kidney failure or pancreatic cancer with all the pain and sweats and sickness. DUH! I relapsed of course but this time it was nothing like that.

    What my doc suggested may work for you - just don't rush it and don't jump from a too high dose!

  9. #9
    hof2010 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    I am on the 2mg Subutex and the first thing I did when I got them was to break them in half. I take a half of one some days, and two halves on other days. Today have had none thus far. I have now started umpiring ball for the season and i think about taking Sub less and less suring this time. There have been times that after leaving home for the ball park it would dawn on me that I had not dosed. I have never turned around and went back home to take Sub. That would have nevr happened with methadone. I would have went back and got my methadone even if it meant being a game late to umpire. I never take Sub to the ball park but i always had my methadone.

    wayne

  10. #10
    Rulebrkr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    I switched from methadone too.

    There is a way to crush ur subutex and take smaller doses of powder under ur tongue. And when you get even lower I read that you can add liquid, then take dropperfuls or measured doses under your tongue. I'm not good at ml/mg stuff but I know someone can help you figure it out. It would be more accurate than slicing a pill with a razorblade I bet!

  11. #11
    hof2010 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    The mg/ml stuff shouldn't be too hard. Maybe I will not have wasted my bachelors degree in chemistry afterall.

  12. #12
    Rulebrkr is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Best Way to Go From Two Mgs To Zero

    Ha! There you go! I was going to try that with the films but I was too dense to even try to figure it out. Or maybe lazy. But boy did I get good handling a razor blade with sweaty palms every morning as I sliced up my Little sliver of orange heaven!! Lol. Hopefully it will work with small drops and then you won't feel it as much.

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