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  1. #1
    superawesomepenguin is offline Junior Member
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    Default Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    *Sorry, didn't know if this should be started in a new thread or not*

    Hey there-

    *Whew* I just read the last 72 pages of posts (super fast read, easy when you're withdrawing from Oxycontin) and I've just been put on Suboxone today.
    I think that I am on probably 6mg right now, and will try to taper within the month or so.
    I'd like to add that I do have a success story with tapering off of Roxi 30s for those who are interested. It just took about four months after I decided to kick it and with my ex boyfriend's help. (Mind you, I took about 30-40mg once a day, only after sundown, however to clarify, it was EVERYDAY for a 8 months to a year)
    I felt no physical withdrawal symptoms. The hard part for me was the mental: even when I was down to a baby line (intranasal) I still wanted to continue. However, that's a mental thing. As soon as I realized that I was probably taking about 5mg a day or less of that stuff and that "baby" lines are ridiculous and akin to snorting air, I stopped. Completely fine in the days that followed.
    I did not even need it the second time around when I stupidly went ahead and did it again. But I digress. If anyone is interested, pm me! I'd be glad to tell you my story and how tapering down on Roxi worked for me.
    Anyway, *moving on* I did a whole bunch of research on Suboxone (some academic, some...notsomuch) and decided to try it out.
    Keep in mind this happened after reading both fairly negative threads (yes, ALL of the posts) on this website.
    My habit was 2 80s a day, constantly redosed throughout the day for about 9 months to a year. So I am admittedly a baby compared to many of you that had to deal with a horrific long-term addiction (heart goes out to you all).
    What may be a little different: I'm tiny. I have a fast metabolism. Most of your teenage kids (if that were applicable, I read there were some parents, some with babies, some with teens) are probably taller than me. I am also fairly young.
    I can't believe I did that much a day.

    Anyway, I called around, found a doctor that took me in immediately (now THAT was hard) and promptly started. I'm posting mainly because I want to know and experiment with the idea of little to no withdrawals with this drug. Yes, I know, very "Gregory House MD-like" of me. I want other people who stumble across this to have hope if my story does turn out fantastic, and I want to nip it in the bud as fast as I can.

    I expressed my concern to my *absurdly* handsome doctor, who told me he will try to get me off within a few months. Being very inquisitive, I wanted to experiment with it a little faster. Unlike some posters who stop posting after any real knowledge is gained on whether or not no withdrawals are possible with short term usage, I want to continue with this information. Hopefully I don't get sidetracked.

    So: 1) I hate the long half life of this drug already. 2) I already have a good feel that being on this too long will **** with me. 3) Get off as soon as possible.

    Here we go:
    Day 1: Suboxone 5-6 mg in lieu of a 2 pill a day habit with constant redose
    Took about 2 hours to feel better from withdrawal. Think this is because I did not take the whole half pill as advised and slowly started to add more when I didn't feel too much. Given another half pill, same thing. 5-6 mg is quite bearable. Feel jittery, like I just took Adderall or something. Very slight headache, slight fever still after 2 hours. Otherwise, ok. Not great, but not bad.

    I talked with the doctor about the longer withdrawals associated with suboxone as opposed to Oxycontin, and he said something that very much made sense.
    I took 5-6 mg to feel better, not great. I was on a 140-160 mg habit.
    (I'll play with the numbers a bit)
    8 mg of Suboxone is equal to 160-180 mg of Oxycontin a day
    So by that reasoning,
    4 mg sub=80 mg oxy
    2 mg sub=40 mg oxy
    1 mg sub=20 mg oxy
    For people that "jump off" at 1 mg, that's still quite a lot of Oxycontin to withdraw from, don't you think?
    .5 mg sub=10 mg oxy
    .25 mg sub=5 mg oxy
    .125 mg sub=2.5 mg oxy
    .0625 mg sub=1.25 mg oxy

    This is my reasoning. I was able to kick my Roxi habit to probably under 5mg comfortably with no problems whatsoever. Keep in mind it probably will have to go that low to .0625 mg suboxone or feasibly LESS for this to work properly.

    ...How the HELL is this done then? I've bought a dropper/syringe to dissolve it in water to put under my tongue, and am prepared to use it.

    What if after you get down to a small amount of the suboxone and just switch back to a very low dose of Oxycontin and then eventually nothing?
    Has anyone tried that? The numbers seem to make sense, but the credibility of that plan is still shaky.

    Anyway, will update soon. This is just a theory, not a suggestion. Personally I am wrestling with this idea as well in my plan for no withdrawal.

    -Penguin

  2. #2
    jdude's Avatar
    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Quote Originally Posted by superawesomepenguin View Post


    I'd like to add that I do have a success story with tapering off of Roxi 30s It just took about four months ....I took about 30-40mg once a day.... EVERYDAY for a 8 months to a year
    My habit was 2 80s a day, ... for about 9 months to a year.
    I can't believe I did that much a day.
    I felt no physical withdrawal symptoms.... As soon as I realized that I was probably taking about 5mg a day or less ..I stopped. Completely fine in the days that followed.
    ....tapering down on Roxi worked for me.

    I've just been put on Suboxone today.
    I think that I am on probably 6mg right now, and will try to taper within the month or so.


    .... found a doctor that took me in immediately (now THAT was hard) and promptly started. ... I want to know and experiment with the idea of little to no withdrawals

    try to get me off within a few months.... I wanted to experiment with it a little faster. .. no withdrawals are possible with short term usage,

    So: 1) I hate the long half life of this drug already. 2) I already have a good feel that being on this too long will **** with me. 3) Get off as soon as possible.

    Here we go:
    Day 1: Suboxone 5-6 mg in lieu of a 2 pill a day habit with constant redose
    ... 2 hours to feel better from withdrawal. Think this is because I did not take the whole half pill as advised and slowly started to add more when I didn't feel too much. Given another half pill, same thing. 5-6 mg is quite bearable.

    I took 5-6 mg to feel better, not great.

    I was able to kick my Roxi habit to probably under 5mg comfortably with no problems whatsoever.
    What if after you get down to a small amount of the suboxone and just switch back to a very low dose of Oxycontin and then eventually nothing?

    ... my plan for no withdrawal.
    Welcome to ODR Penguin. See some issues in your post?

    If I'm reading this correctly, you've just started the sub?
    How can we help with your plan?

    Jay
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  3. #3
    superawesomepenguin is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Hello Jay-

    Thanks for pointing out some of the flaws in my reasoning. Ahh, addiction. That damn battle...:)

    I wanted to know if you or anyone else has had luck in dissolving the pills pieces for a sub taper? Also, if you think that I'm possibly tapering a bit too fast?

    Lord, my problem. Never listened to doctors. Probably never will. :D

    On day 2 of Suboxone:
    Woke up quite late after going to bed quite late. I took about 3mg after redosing last night with 3mg. It's been probably almost 4 hours since that dose.

    I see I have to stick to a schedule* It's hard when I wake up at different times. Alas, only a day or so more of this before I have to do crazy work for a month and a half everyday.

    Am going to start cutting pills (all 40!) of them to 2mg doses.

    Correction: Done.

    So my plan to taper is rough:
    First 4-5 days (after that initial 6mg and 3mg): 2mg morning, if can handle, start going to 1mg
    Next 3: 1mg, if can handle, start going to .5 next couple days
    Next 5-7 days: Start dissolving.

    Sorry if that's a little rough, I'm working on it now.

    Here's more fun math:

    I have a pill dropper that measures every mL of water. It is divided into 5 between mLs.

    By that reasoning:
    .5mg suboxone=1 mL
    .1mg=1/5 mL

    So every 5th of a mL will be .1mg of sub.

    With the previous post in mind, that would roughly equal to 2.5mg of Oxycontin if rounded up.

    I could also do:
    .25mg sub=1 mL
    .05mg=1/5 mL

    So every 5th stop of the 1mL stopper would be equal to .05mg of sub, or rounded to roughly 1mg of Oxycontin.

    Another question: Has anyone started dissolving it from start to finish, even with big chunks? I'm talking about dissolving it and placing it under the tongue so that the body has time to get used to that method before it gets down to the very tiny "blips".

    Sorry, hopefully this makes a tiny bit of sense. I'm thinking that when it goes down to that .05mg I can just estimate to cut the 1/5s in half and then over the course of 4-5 days, walk off. That would be like taking .5mg of Oxycontin per day.

    How does that sound? Too excessive? Too ambitious?

    -Penguin

  4. #4
    jdude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Hey Penguin...by the time I got to the sub crumb point....the .5mg, for me I would never maintain the taper with the water method.

    I did what 99.5% of us did. Take the bigger pieces first, then the smaller ones. Alternating days on and off.
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  5. #5
    superawesomepenguin is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Hey Jay-

    So here's someone who has done it:

    Liquid Suboxone Taper Method Is A Success! Diary of a Quitter

    Hopefully someone finds the link useful.

    But I totally see your point. It differs for all of us. I say you have a lot of guts jumping off at .5mg. :) I just went on this other forum website and I was so disappointed at how some people were berating others for being "cowardly" and whatnot for "whining" (their words, not mine) about jumping off at 1mg or .5mg. After, I watched some Dark Knight and it made me feel better. People are intrepid. Like you and many other posters have said, it's all mind games and everyone has their own pain threshold.

    But I digress.

    I don't even know if I can keep to this, truth be told, but I'll try. Just for experiment's sake, you know? I hope it gives some people who consider this route some hope, like that other blog. I believe she was on it for a while and stuck at 1mg.

    Ah and so:
    Day 3: Yesterday I broke. A little. After chopping it up, disaster hit. I took 1mg more after my "baby" got loose and ran away, lost. I cried forever that whole night, no sleep whatsoever. Here's the good part though: Lots of exercise trying to find her. Nice, right? :) But I went the whole night after that 1mg without, found her this morning, and now am going to attempt sleep. Without.
    I'm going to try to skip today, truth be told. My left pinkie finger is a little feverish, but that could be from trucking all night in the rain and no sleep. From what I remember, Oxycontin used to mask about half of the symptoms of flu, but not all. So, yes, I was never impervious to minor pains. In fact, aware of them.
    So there's my plan for today. Ah! But I had a breakthough last night! My ex asked me if I felt like taking an Oxycontin because he was concerned that I would, and I said hell no. I WANT to be able to look for my pet without being numb. Being numb isn't the solution. It doesn't change anything. The more sad I am, the more I will try to fight. I also notice that suboxone does not make me half as numb as Oxy. In fact, I cried buckets.
    Now I'm feeling like my old, sardonic self again. Now for that half life...
    I think I'll make it today. Have to leave tomorrow for that work thing, but otherwise, feels nice. My plan is to try to start skipping days early on so my body gets used to it. The old lie down here is that it takes 3 straight days of Oxy or Roxi to get you hooked and start feeling withdrawals. Man, if I knew that earlier...

    Anyway, have a good day, guys! :) Stay strong! Last night, I also said, "Damn. This is way worse than physical withdrawal." Now whenever I feel my body reacting to pain or shivers, I say to myself, "Ah **** it. Two tears in a bucket. There are worst things than this."

    I'll leave off with a quote:
    "I'm not a drug salesman. I'm a writer."
    "What makes you think a writer isn't a drug salesman?"
    -Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut

  6. #6
    Joplinfrk's Avatar
    Joplinfrk is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Yes, unfortunately there is no free pass off the opiate express. We all pay the price to some degree or another. The great news: once it's over, it's over! There isn't much more I can add to what Jay is advising except that I welcome you to ODR and wish you a very slow and thoughtful recovery.
    Don't be afraid of withdrawal. The sick feeling will pass and then the real work starts: staying sober. For me, the rooms of AA were the last thing I tried and the first thing that worked, but it will only work if you work it.

    1/31/2008

  7. #7
    jdude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Hey Penguin....just a little heads up. With your induction doses, you still have the half life winding down. One of the reasons you may be able to skip days at this point.
    But if the 3mg is holding you at the alternating days, 1mg should hold you on a daily dose. Since the sub makes a lousy PRN med. You'll know in a day or so if you need to go to a plan B. A daily dose of 1mg would serve you as well with a short term plan.
    Congrats on the progress.
    Jay
    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  8. #8
    superawesomepenguin is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Thank you Joplinfrk :)

    Still up after sleeping all day. I'm watching some episodes of House, cheering me up.

    Jay-

    I've made it through 27 hours without! :) I redosed an hour ago with 1/5mg of a dissolved .5mg in 1mL water sample.

    So I took .1 mg an hour ago.

    I feel a lot better within the hour.

    Now I should go to sleep in an hour or so.

    I will definitely take the 1mg plan in consideration! I need to stabilize, I know, so this plan seems doable at 1mg.

    Once I wake up tomorrow, I will try .5mg-1mg depending on how I feel and proceed the days following after that at the same dosage. If I don't need it, I'll take less and trudge on. If I do, I won't take above 1mg.

    I have found the half-life spreadsheet! But for some reason, it doesn't calculate past 6 days. Oh well. My plan is that once the Oxycontin is out of my system (in about two days) I will be at such a low level of Suboxone, that I can try to walk off.

    Skipping days is also in my agenda if I can do it. I will NOT let this damn drug beat me! However, here's the kicker. My doctor wants me on this for about two months. If I end up quitting within 2 weeks, what else lays ahead? I do believe some therapy is in order, but I think psychiatry is a crock. I do not believe in antidepressants as I have tried a few, but I do believe that some depression (and for that matter, addiction) can lay in genetics and other key things.

    Anyway, update soon! Thanks so much, both of you.

    -Penguin
    Last edited by superawesomepenguin; 07-11-2010 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Wrong wording

  9. #9
    superawesomepenguin is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Has anyone ever had precipitated withdrawals when you take an MDMA capsule following an everyday Oxycontin habit?

    I think I have.

    I felt instantly drowsy and sick, and curled up in a bed feeling miserable and great. I also went to the bathroom without constipation issues.

    This happened last month. Weird, isn't it? Just wondering if anyone had that experience.

    Also, has anyone seen the last episode in one of the House seasons? Four or five to be exact? Where he overdoses finally on Vicodin and subsequently gets checked into rehab?

    I remember whilst on Oxycontin (I got introduced to the series late, ok? :)) I thought to myself, God, what a problem. He should just listen to the psychiatrist and stop playing God.

    ...

    Right. Half a year later, I'm affectionately called "House" on a daily basis by my ex boyfriend (who incidentally does not do any drugs whatsoever including nicotine and abhors alcohol. I'm lucky to be surrounded by people not in my immediate family sometimes :D) because of my apparent "jaded distrust" towards doctors and lawyers.

    Note: You know I love you lawyers out there, I only say so because the majority of people in my area that buy off the Oxys for a higher price because they can afford it are lawyers. Damn you, making it pricier for the rest of us! :)

    Anyway, I digress. I love watching House, and believe it or not, that motivates me enough to stop the cravings. Mind you, it used to amplify them, but now it does the complete opposite.

    So Day 4 (or 5?):
    The wee morning of Day 4 I couldn't handle the not sleeping, so I took .5mg.

    This is Day 5. Yes. Day 5, I believe. So Day 4, I took a .5mg at night fairly early and now on to this HELL. I hate Day 5. I hate everything except for the sex.

    I'm starting to think, **** this. I want off. I'm pretty sure this is still the butt-end of the Oxycontin withdrawals, considering I haven't taken more than .7-.8mg daily in the past days (I'm rounding off, DAMN YOU CRUMBS) and skipped a day after the 4mg down from the 9mg the first day.

    I mean, it's considerably better than the first day of Oxycontin withdrawals, that's for sure. I mean, I'm up typing this thing, right?

    So I'm not the poster child for no withdrawals. I should change the title haha. Well, I hate feeling nothing. I hate that I've been on this drug and switched to Suboxone where I don't feel anything. I feel like I need to feel pain. I deserve this. I've let people down, I've blown through money (I have a lucrative job, though, just to pay for schooling ;) I'm sure you all know what that must be like) and NO MORE.

    I deserve this pain.

    A lighter viewpoint suggests that talking to people help. Especially friends and family. My ex boyfriend strongly encourages addicts to tell close friends and family (I think it's to see the disappointment in their faces which gets you MUCH closer to recovery, but then I'm a miserable guilty curmudgeon) because it's easier than beating it alone. True friends and family will help you, and it's not because they're obligated to or that you're a burden (his words, not mine, I insist that I am, but you may not be) it's actually because they want to help. Either way, do it. There are people that will lash out because they don't understand, and people that will understand because everyone slips up once in their life.

    If you truly do think that people will alienate you, then you have to do a huge revamping on how good a person you are and what sort of people you surround yourself with.

    But take it from me. I'm a miserable, young, crafty little **** stripper that got in the 99% percentile of both ACT and SAT (haha, I see your disbelief now. C'mon, academics are a crock. I'm not smart, I'm an addict. Now that's pretty stupid) so I don't deserve ****. I'm not living in Africa wondering if someone HIV positive is going to barge into my house and rape me. I'm not living on the streets selling my body to feed my kids.

    I'm a dumbass, plain and simple. And I STILL have great friends.

    How lucky can you get?

    But seriously, reach out. I'll do a world of good. Pessimistic Pauly says so.

    I'm not afraid anymore of withdrawals. There are worst things. The rest of you: Do it at your own pace. You deserve this. Everyone deserves some comfort, even addicts.

    We can do it!

    -Penguin

    "You can doooo ittt, Niickkyyy."

    -Little Nicky the movie

    Oh come on, you didn't think I would say it? :)

  10. #10
    3rdxstheCharm is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Fast Taper Plan that hopefully includes minor to no withdrawals

    Quote Originally Posted by superawesomepenguin
    I'm posting mainly because I want to know and experiment with the idea of little to no withdrawals with this drug.
    I'm not going to get into too much detail at the moment, but I would not suggest staying on Suboxone/Subutex any longer than 14 days. Period.

    Once your body becomes dependent on Suboxone, most people wish they'd never gotten on it. It can be wonderful if used very short term though. A 10 day taper is optimal for a first timer.

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