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  1. #1
    dshays Guest

    Default Can Sub or Bup help my son?

    First of all, I would like to say to all who are a part of this forum - God Bless you, and I think this is a wonderful place for addicts in every stage of addiction or recovery to come together and share. I have read from all the threads, and my heart goes out to all of you brave people who open up yourselves to each other and hold each other up through this terrible ordeal.

    I read an article in the National Enquirer about Buprenorphine (sp?) and was lead to this site. I have a 20 y/o son who has lived with his Dad since he was 13. Off and on I have known of his pill problem
    and have tried to help him. He moved away from me at the age of 13 because he couldn't take the rules and discipline. His Dad offered him a sanctuary from my husband and me - a free reign so to speak. No rules, any friends he wanted, and a life free from discipline. Now, I know his Dad didn't realize the irreparable harm he was doing his son. He only knew that to take him away from me was the worst sort of pain he could inflict on me, so that was his motivation, but the outcome has been terrible. Jake has been involved in gang life since the age of 13. He broke into our business, my parents home, and has been off and on drugs since he was 13. There have been times that he's been clean, and my husband would relent, allowing him to come back and be part of our lives, work for us at our business, etc., but it always backfires in some way (usually when my husband or myself expects something from him). He can't take any kind of discipline or advice giving. He is a taker, and will give nothing in return, which leads to arguments and blow-ups.

    Anyway, recently he has not been allowed here because of drug use, choice of friends (we're scared of these people), and just bad behavior that we don't want witnessed by his little brother who's only 9 years old. I talk to him as much as I can though, and can tell when he's pilled up. There was a recent break-in to my parents home where considerable money was taken. He of course denies it, but all fingers point to him. And my Dad is the one person in this family who loves and accepts him no matter what. He has even given him a job lately (that he only shows up for half the time, and when he does he is so doped up that he's more a danger than anything else). He admitted to me the other day that he takes Oxy, Valium, Vicodin, and has even done heroin. He never shoots up, but I think he snorts it. I'm afraid that he will OD. I think he deals these pills too, but that's only hearsay. I gave him the article on Bup from the Enquirer, and printed off all the info off the site that was listed there. I have also printed off many of these posts here for him to read.

    My questions to you who have been in the same place he's at is this? What do I do as a mother? What do I say to him that won't drive him deeper into this? What do you hate to hear from those closest to you? What has helped you the most? He will be 21 in December. Does he have to "bottom" out? He's been arrested numerous times. He went to Mexico once to buy pills to sell here, was caught. He's not going to be given much sympathy if he's caught again. I'm afraid they would just put him away. Would they let him detox first? Would they force him into rehab? He says he can quit on his own, and has been tapering off. I don't believe him. I am desperate as you can probably tell. This is the worst heartbreak a mother can go through, but his heartbreak and misery must be worse than mine. Any insight would be so greatly appreciated.

    CJ


  2. #2
    greeneyez is offline Senior Member
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    I am saddened to say this but your son is over 18 and the most you can do now, is be there for him when he hits bottom . You can offer all the help in the world but until he hits bottom, whatever that may be for him (Getting arrested, or plainly just tired of the scene) there is nothing you can do to stop his behavior.
    First, I would tell his Dad to stop letting the kid make his own rules, and if he can not live by the rules, do the hardest thing he can do, and make him live on his own. That sounds really harsh, but letting him do whateveer he wants, is only adding to the problem IMHO.
    One thing i can say from being a addcit is , a addict will do whatever it takes to get the drugs they need, Personally I never stole from family or friends, but I know many people who have, and it is the addiction making them do those things.

    All you can do is be there for him, when he needs you, but until he is ready to help himself there is NOT much you can do.

    The things that helped me the most, were not people lecturing me, or telling me how bad i was as a person, but for people to let me know they were there for me, when i was willing to change my ways.

    For right now, you other child does not need a influence like you son..Right now if he is heavy duty into drugs and all that, he does not care about what you think or feel, he is too worried about the next high..

    But whatever you do, do not judge him for being a addict, that is a diease.. Why not maybe trying to tell him if he he will go on the bupernex, you will help me by paying for the treatment, it is alot better then all the other stuff he is on.

    Otherwise, all you can do is let him know you love him, and you will be there for him when he is ready to change. I just pray your son hits bottom, before he OD's...PLease, stay Strong and do not give up on your son, no matter if he admits it or not he needs your support right now, he needs to know that you do not approve of his behavior,and you do not like his behavior, but you do LOVE HIM.

    Maybe you should all go to some family counseling, maybe if you can get to the root of his problems, that is a start. Maybe he has something emotional going on, that is leading him down the wrong path, with the wrong people.

    If he does get arrested, and they know of his drug problem, YES they can force him into rehab, but again unless he is ready to change, he will just get out of rehab and start all over again..

    Welcome to the forum.. I understand what you are going threw, and i know it is hard to sit back and do nothing,Your son has a illness and it is called addiction, and it is very powerful, it takes over your whole life.

    I wish you the best of luck, and again be there for your son with open arms when he is ready to change, he will need all the support from his family..Keep posting and let us know how he is doing.
    Sheri

    "Live for today, as tomorrow is not promised to anyone"

  3. #3
    Apheana is offline Senior Member
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    Its hard to read a post like this in a way because it reminds me of the days when I just didnt care. It sounds to me like there is a tiny peice in him that does but trying to change him will make it worse, he will close up on you completely. My advice is to try and get to know the him he is hiding behind drugs. Its not easy I know and maybe not even possible but I know I started using drugs to numb pain and escape from myself and reality. You cant force that on someone and it is painful to watch. I commend you and I hope that the little peice in your son that does give a damn wakes up a little more because liking yourself is the first step in being sober in my opinion. I started smoking pot at 12 years old and sneaking beer not to long after. One thing led to another. Under that drug use is a 13 year old son that probably regrets going with his dad. Sub or bup will only help him if he wants help and is ready.

    ***Live, Laugh and Love***

  4. #4
    greeneyez is offline Senior Member
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    DShays- Hi! How is everything going with your son? That is true Sub or bupe will only help if he is ready. I too believe that there is something that is bothering him that he is using the drugs to mask whatever it is. I would definlaty see if he would be willing to go to coulseling, that is a start to get to the root of the problem. Maybe he is doing it out of some sort of resentment he has.
    I do not really feel his Dad is helping the situation, maybe he is not getting as much love and support as he needs, and he is crying out for help, by using the drugs or trying to not deal with some pain he feels. It can be anything and even something as simple as dealing with peer pressure and fitting in and being cool.
    I agree with Apheana, there is a small peice of him that is crying out for help, and that shows because he told you that he is taking drugs, and most people or even kids do not admit that to anyone, unless they are looking for help and in telling you, that was a huge step. I know when i was doing drugs in my teens and early adult hood, I did not want anyone to know. So, i do see a call for help there, he is reachinig out to you. That is a good sign. What was your reply when he told you the drugs he was using? Was there a reason he told you? I would take that as i good sign and that he does care..
    I know you are in alot of pain, but i know he is in alot more then you probley are at this point, and to get to the root of the problem is probley the best start you can have. I would talk to him, NOT yell or scream or tell him how hurt you are, and whatever you do, Do not come at him like you are judging him or critasizing him. I would ask him why he went to drugs, and if there is there was something missing in his life, or something he needed or did not get that lead to his using. I would ask him if there is anything you can do to help him get well. If he admitted the drugs he is doing, then maybe he will open up if you come at him as a friend, and just ask WHAT lead to his usage of drugs at such a young age? It can not hurt, but if you show anger, he is going to come back with anger, if you pass judgement he will just close up..ANyway just a few thoughts. Please post and let us know how things are going. Best of luck and my prayers and thouoghts are with you and your son.
    Sheri


    "Live for today, as tomorrow is not promised to anyone"

  5. #5
    dshays is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you all for your replies. Yes, I know there is a piece of him that regrets going to live with his Dad. I told his last drug counselor (who quit him because he refused to go to meetings) that basically he is STILL 13 years old, wanting that mothering that he missed for seven years. If I could erase those years too I would, but now he's 20, almost 21, and he sees that his little brother lives a great life, playing sports, doing good in school, having things that my older son wants and could have had if he hadn't burned so many bridges. Of course he can't burn his bridges with me, but my husband is pretty adamant about not helping him anymore and not trusting him at all. I live with that every day, and it kills me, but I do know that my 9 y/o would be treated the same way if he had done and said the things that my older one has done, even though he is my husband's own son (the 9 y/o). In a way, my husband can't feel the love I do for J.T., but he loves me, and would do anything for me that he possibly could, and believe me he's done way more than most would for this boy. I talked to his g/f this morning, and she was getting him up to work with my Dad. She said he's been better the last couple of days, and really seems to want to get clean. I told her to talk to his Dad, and have him sit down with him and tell him that nothing is impossible if they set out together to conquer it. His Dad has always just let him do whatever he wants. For instance, he let this girl move in who was pregnant with another guy's baby. My son can't even take care of himself, much less a g/f and a baby! That is his Dad's house, can't he tell his own son that to do such a thing at this stage in his life is unwise? He lies for him when he can't get up to go to work. The most he does is ask the g/f how he's doing today. Never admits the problem. Leaves him $20 on the counter every morning. This boy is 20 years old! He sleeps till noon or later, stays out all night, takes pills, probably even sells them from their house,and his Dad just goes about his business every day like nothing is wrong! Yes, I do think that by telling me these things he's reaching out to me, but I've been so pro-active (as much as I can be from a distance) and it's never helped before. By pro-active I mean I'm the one who talks to his counselors, giving them insight into the situation. I'm the one who researches things, trying to help him. I'm the one who buys him books, talks to him till I'm blue in the face, etc., etc. But he has to be sick of it and want to do something about it.

    He's very intelligent and makes straight A's when he's in school. He's not in school right now because he says that he won't go to college if he has to pay for it. My husband told him we would pay half, but he wants us to pay it all. My husband says that he had to pay ALL of his tuition, and if J.T. wants to go to college bad enough he'll work and chip in. My son says that not only will he not chip in, he won't work either if he's in school because that's just TOO MUCH! After these latest events and the drug use I don't think my husband would even pay half. He's going to have to get clean, go to school a couple of semesters and prove some things before he'll get any help from his step-dad. I don't know why I even brought that part up, except to show some more of the situation. School isn't even possible with the shape he's in.

    I feel better knowing there are people out there who understand. Thanks for listening.

    CJ

  6. #6
    greeneyez is offline Senior Member
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    HI CJ, So glad to hear from you. I am here for you, if you feel better talking privatly about some things, then please feel free to e-mail me @ sc143@bellsouth.net

    It really sounds that your son's dad is the cause of alot of the problems your son may be going threw. It could be he is rebeling againest his father for not being there enough. Seems that maybe your son wants rules, and he wants to be acknowledged, and he wants to have a father in his life , his father leaving him 20.00 dollars a day is just helping him to get high, and it is making it that much easier.. Sounds like Dad is not much into your son's life and letting him just run amuck with no fatherly guidence.

    I do not want this to come out wrong, but if your husband now loves you, he will accept your son, and love him too. If you son wants to go to college, I would do whatever i had to do, if i had to pay for it myself to get him there, so many kids just do not want a education and can careless but even threw this hard time and addiction he wants to still go to collage, that is great. Collage may be something that you son wants bad enough, that he would consider turning his life around, the fact he is even thinking about it is really a postive. I too had a step-dad that gave up on me, and all it did was cause me to resent my mother, becasue i felt that if my step-dad cared and accepted me , he would love me unconditional, but he did not, there was alot of conditions,even to the point where i moved out and went and lived with my grandparents because that is where i felt that i got unconditional love and support.
    I know all this must be really hard on you and i feel for you, and also the fact that you have a 9 year old to protect from all this, I know it is alot of stress . If you son is really ready to get clean, maybe now is the best time to to ask him, what you can do to help him, and what right now he needs from you , to support him to get threw this.
    It really sounds like your son loves you and trusts you, and you two seem to have a close realishionship, He must feel close to you, as he told you about his drug usage.
    Is there anyway you can talk to your son's father, and explain to him, that he is NOT helping the situation but enabling you son to use drugs, and is not being a good role model. Sure seems the father may need some counseling too, maybe even with your son..
    I can feel for the sitaution you are in, and you must feel like you are walking on egg shells most of the time, trying to keep the peace and the support for your son. ALl you can do is be there when he is ready to open up. I know i keep saying that, but until he is ready to change his life, you can and have talked until your blue in the face, it is not going to matter. Does his G/F do drugs too, is she enabling him also, or is it just the people he hangs around?
    Please, keep posting, even just vent it will take the edge off and get it off your chest. PLease, as long as your son is still breathing and alive there is hope, never loose sight of that.Prayers and thoughts are with you and your son. We do definatly understand, I have been in your son's shoes in my life, and i had certain family that never gave up on me and they were there unconditionally, and that is what you son needs most right now.

    Sheri

    "Live for today, as tomorrow is not promised to anyone"

  7. #7
    Allgood is offline Senior Member
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    D - Ur posts hurt me to read. I have no children myself, but I do feel your pain, as i can relate as a son. I will try to offer some insight from your sons point of view . . since I have dealt with similar occurences as far as telling my folks about my addictions and reaching out indirectly to them for support.

    It is obvious that by telling you his problems, he is reaching out for help. He may be "too cool" to admit this, not ready to stop yet, or just plain stubborn like I was . . . .but it is apparent that he recognizes that he is sick, and wants to eventually do something to help himself. It is normal behavior as a young adult to want that freedom to be able to do whatever you want, so i see why he would want to live at his fathers. This CAN be a positive situation in the long run, if 1)he survives this stage and 2) he looks back and learns from the past . . . how much people loved and cared for him, and how stupid his actions were. These types of situation can really mold a person into a good human being in the future, it builds character as he matures into adulthood . . . but he must get thru this time unharmed, which is seems to be your main concern right now, and i don't blame you.

    As for now, the only thing you can do is support him and continue to educate him the way you have been. He will not get clean unless he really WANTS to. Although, the living situation is not helping him in the present. It may benefit him in the long run, but as for now it will just continue to feed his problem. Fortunately, I never had issues with parental supervision . . .but I have seen many friends who did and have turned out to be class act individuals. I hope your son can get thru this awfule stage he is in and discover who he really is. Have you tried to speak with the father? Does he use as well? Maybe he can put that 20 bucks a day towards school for his son . . . thats $6720/year. That can pay for a years worth of schooling alone! Please realize that your son loves you, and is reching out to you for support. Sounds like you are doing all you can do at this point . . . just please stick by his side . . .he needs you.

    Maybe your son would like to come online and talk to some people he can relate better too. We are here for him if he needs anything.

    I wish you and J.T nothing but the best. Keep us posted, please.

    Tom

  8. #8
    DKT
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    Hi, Dont give up on your son and its all going to be okay..I can understand where your Oldest sons step Dad is coming from..He just wants to see an effort..
    I have raised 5 as I have said to you before..My 22 year old Biological Son has always had a I OWE HIM Attitude..My kids had already left home when I started receiving Child Support.. So Guess who Supported them..?? (2 boys 1 girl) Than I met Brian and he brought in 2 boys..When I started receiving Child Support after My owe me son went to college he felt I should send him a Monthly check from the C.S. He started drinking,dropped out of college even though He got a full ride on a wrestling Scholarship for being a three time state champion/ 3rd in the nationals..
    When he came home he wanted to live on his own so moved in with a friend..I would drop by every week with groceries only to find the porch stacked to the rafters with beer boxes....His roommate/best friend ended up dying a few months later in a car crash.. He was devasted..His car wasnt running well so I get the Idea load him up and go Co-Sign for a new Volkswagen Jetta.. Also at this point he had a carpet laying job..To make a long story short I am hearing through the Grapevine that he is doing a Great deal of drinking than getting in his car and driving..I get a phone call one night from a very concerned person who says he is sitting in a Pub about 25 miles away from his house..Needless to say he is 5"7 130 pds with Pub beer in his system..I call the Pub and offer to get out of my Pajamas and go get him..He called me and his step Dad Brian every name in the book and said dont f#$%&$G treat me like a 10 year old.. 20 minutes later the phone rings and its my son..He has rolled his Jetta 6 times down the highway and landed in a ditch..When I arrive he is out of the Car and ready to make it all mine and his step Dads fault..When I walk up to his beautiful mangled Black Jetta there is a Steel fence post through the drivers side window..God had to really be watching over that Kid..Here he is Mad at me for the measely 50 dollars a week I am getting in back Child support that he thinks he is owed and Yet I have Co-Signed for a Car and we paid all the kids car Insurances till they were 22. When the Kid sobered up the next day He was remorseful but I had to Tough Love the situation..I told him whatever Insurance over and above paying off his Jetta is what he would have towards a next car..That I would not Co-sign and even though he had not reached the age of 22 he was being pulled from the Insurance..Never give up but sometimes you have to let them grow up and get into a few of lifes messes without being helped out..He now drives a 71 International Scout, Is paying his own Insurance, is expecting a baby in Dec and has just signed up for nursing school..I had to put him in Gods hands and believe,
    Deborah

  9. #9
    dshays is offline Junior Member
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    Deb, Tom and Sheri,
    Thank you so much for listening. No, the g/f does not use. She's a sweet girl, but she so does not need to be there in that atmosphere with a baby. I enlisted her help today to talk to his Dad, saying that if he would acknowledge the problem and sit down with our son, telling him the two of them would work on this together, maybe that would be better than me. I'm always there, and I can easily be bullied by him. He knows how to push my buttons and make me feel so guilty. His Dad, being bigger than he is, and stronger, could maybe make a believer out of him. It would be a different track than he's gone down before, maybe different would jolt him. G/F says that he hasn't used for at least 24 hours and is starting to feel pretty rotten. I don't think this will work, because as much as he was taking he could get really sick, yet I don't think he's got the stuff it takes to taper. That's why I thought the buprenorphine would be something for him to look into. He did go to work with my Dad, but I don't know how much help he'll be.

    As for me paying for his college, at this point that's out of the question. He has taken so much money from us, and not done what he was supposed to do with it, my husband REFUSES to give him another dime. It's not just that, it's his whole attitude of *&# you that he has toward his step-dad - a man who has given him so many wonderful opportunities and gone past his own good judgment many times to please me. It kills me because when J.T. is high he gets very abusive to me and accuses me of abandoning him and getting rid of him to have another family. That, of course, is so far removed from the truth. When I divorced his Dad, he and I were a package. Any man that I ever went out with knew that if he got me, he got a child too. I would never have been serious about any man who wouldn't have felt that way. He knows all this, but he still likes to place blame anywhere but on himself or his Dad. I pray every day for God to give me wisdom to be the right kind of Mom, saying and doing just what needs to be said and done for this situation. That's why I got brave and posted here, because I knew you guys have BTDT and could give me some real advice and wisdom on this grave matter.

    Thanks again and God Bless to all of you. You are in my prayers just as he is.

    CJ

  10. #10
    dshays is offline Junior Member
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    Deb, thank you too for your advice. The best to you in your quest to get off those blasted pills, and the best to your son too in his quest to grow up!

    You're doing great it sounds like. You've got a good man, and you're lucky that he had kids too. My husband has no kids except for ours. So far our little fella is doing so well that I know it's hard for him to imagine what he would do in this situation. J.T. was 9 y/o when he and I got married, the same age as our son is now. I really believe that he would treat our son the same way. He is a very tough but loving Dad, and very involved in every aspect of his life, something J.T. has never had in a Dad, and the difference it makes in the life of a child is amazing. But there are plenty of people who had rotten dads or rotten moms who still turned out o.k. so you can't blame everything on your childhood forever.

    CJ

  11. #11
    DKT
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    dshays,
    I am doing great and cant wait till the hubby snaps out of it..For some reason its a slower go for him.. We were using about the same and yet our reactions are so different..I felt with him being 6 ft and 180 that it would be out of his system before me because I am 5"5 and 120.. Not so.. We are 5 complete days at 7:45 this morning and it feels so good x-ing off the days..I love knowing that I am conducting my life under my own energy and commitment to suceed..
    I just feel everything is going to be okay for you and I also want to Thank-You for your care and concern..If you ever need to talk like I have said before I will be glad to e-mail my phone #..
    Have a Great Day, Deborah

  12. #12
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    BlondeBomb is offline Senior Member
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    Dear CJ,

    As a parent the hardest thing we have to do is called "tough love". When we set down perameters and rules for our kids and then follow through it doesnt mean we dont love them, it actually means the very opposite. We love them so much that we have to show them to right way to live or they will never amount up to anything in life.

    I do believe if your son is not interested in turning his life around at this point there is not much you can do but let him know you will be there for him when he is ready and pray for him.

    I think you should make it very clear what you and your husband can and will do for him, and what he will give you in return. For instance, he has be get and remain clean, he has to go to school and get decent grades and he has to hold down atleast a part time. I dont think you are asking too much.

    You also need to make it clear that no matter what decision he makes you will always love him and even though it will break your heart if he remains drug addicted, your love will never change. We know your love in not conditional on getting clean, but giving him your help, support and money is. Or he will never ever grow up and become a man.

    It sounds to me like your x-husband is a major part of this problem. You may want to consider flying or driving to where he is and having a meeting with your him and seeing if you together can work something out. If his dad really loves him he will work with you. I dont know your relationship with your x is at this point. Hopefully by you showing up there to talk to him will show him how desperate you are for your sons sake. maybe you can find a counseler to mediate between the both of you.

    No of that matters if you son is not ready to change his life. there is one thing I have learned YOU CAN MAKE ANOTHER PERSON DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO IF THEY DONT WANT TO DO IT. Not your mom, not your husband, not your son or daughter.

    He is 20 years old now and has to take some responsibity for his life and his situations. If you and your husband keep bailing him out over and over again what message do you think you are sending him? You are telling him...you dont need to take responsibility for your actions we will always do it for you.

    My hearts breaks for you. I too am the a mother of a 13 year old daughter and my husbands 21 yr. old daughter lives with us as well. Being a parent is the hardest thing in the world, but sometimes we need to let our kids make their mistakes and then pay for them to really learn the lesson. We can only pray that they dont get too hurt while doing it.

    I hope you will keep us informed as to what happens to your son. I guess thats why they call it "tough" love, it is tougher on us them even on them. All I can offer you is prayer and comfort. God bless.


    Teri

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