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  1. #13
    fluffy is offline Senior Member
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    These Dr's and Pharmacists, etc, really take the cake ... up the ***! I'm in the "never shot up, terrified of needle" category, and always have my limbs visible for inspection. I was having some irritating side effects, nothing life threatening, but why should I take the Naltrexone + extra filler and crap? I never was able to find out if it was the Bupe or the extra crap in the Suboxone that was bothering me. I asked my Dr about getting Subutex instead of Suboxone and she told me "Subutex is illegal in the US". I knew it was bull****, but double-checked at the pharmacy and they verified that they could easily get it for me. They kept stressing that "she'll never (RX) it for you though", over and over, like I'm trying to get away with something. What assholes.

    Oh, no; not again!

  2. #14
    sailinfla is offline Senior Member
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    They put you on Subutex first(for the fisrt three days) and then Suboxone. Well not all do, but in this area thats what they do. My doc said thats the rules under SAMSHA. But what about the liquid? Why do some get the liquid? That is pure bup. It continues to blow me away that I can get oxies tomorrow at about three docs and they can't prescribe bup to me. They can for pain but when I ask one (when I was on MMT getting some Valiums) he said he wouldn't write because its to controlled at this point and he has a lot less heat prescribing other heavy weight narcotics. He thinks itís as lame as we do. He also doesn't understand why there isn't a generic. Itís been on the market for years (Europe)
    PS: Ludes arenít a barb, a Hypnotic sedative. A little read I found. I donít know why Iím so preoccupied with them now; they have been gone for 20 years! boo hoo

    Methaqualone was discovered by the Indian researcher M. L. Gujiral in 1955 during a antimalarial research program. It was marketed as a sleeping pill from the 1960s under a number of tradenames including Renoval, Melsed and in combination with an antihistamine as Mandrax. From 1965 it was sold on the US market as Quaalude and Sopor, by 1972 it was the sixth most popular sedative in the US. The name Quaalude was apparently derived from the phrase 'quiet interlude' with an added 'aa' by the manufacturers. It was hoped that it was a 'safer' drug than barbiturates to use for sedation; however, it was found to have similar problems of tolerance and dependence.


    the BOSS

  3. #15
    Pal
    Pal is offline Senior Member
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    I guess I feel like fluffy about it. I have no objection to Suboxone, but I'm not a needle junkie and think I should get Subutex if I want it. It is so stupid, but I'll take my Suboxone and be happy.

  4. #16
    sailinfla is offline Senior Member
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    I totally agree, if just for the lower price. We sure don't need any other drugs in our systems after what our livers have been through. I found a site you mike like Pal. It compares the two.

    http://www.opioids.com/buprenorphine/buprenorph.html

    the BOSS

  5. #17
    Pal
    Pal is offline Senior Member
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    That site is great! I actually used that as my basis for scientific reseach before I started the Sub.

    if you read one of the studies carefully, it actully indicated that sublingual Naloxone actually increases buprenorphine absorbtion if you compare it with sublingual bup. w/o naloxone! It is so weird!! An antagonist ENHANCING an opiate??? WTF is up with Suboxone? Zgreat drug, weird conduct inside the body!

  6. #18
    sailinfla is offline Senior Member
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    It has sure caused us all to re-think the rules!

    the BOSS

  7. #19
    girlinterupted is offline Senior Member
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    Hey fluffy,
    when i first started sub i was calling around my area to see which pharmacy carried it.Walgreens actually told me that Bupenorphine had actually been discontinued by the manufacturers.I said oooooooh i see but the funny thing is I have a script in my hand and my doctor just gave me my first doses.How do you explain that one? she said she didn't know and that's what her computer is telling her so they could not order it for me.Maybe she just didn't want to carry it eh? pisses me off too that they will carry all the drugs that get us hooked but chose not to carry a drug that helps.Screwed up thinking indeed.

  8. #20
    Pal
    Pal is offline Senior Member
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    yep. I'm thinking Pharmacists are actually worse than doctors in a lot of ways. Lazy, unethical pricks IMHO.

  9. #21
    fluffy is offline Senior Member
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    quote:Originally posted by sailnfla

    They put you on Subutex first(for the fisrt three days) and then Suboxone. Well not all do, but in this area thats what they do. My doc said thats the rules under SAMSHA.
    I kmow it's just the protocol, but someone's lying to us here. I keep getting the response that there's nothing to worry about with the Suboxone. Supposedly, unless taken IV, there's not difference in the affect of Subutex vs Suboxone. Well, if that's true, why the "precaution" of giving Subutex for the first 3-7 days? I know I've bitched about this before, so I'll try to make this my last mention of this topic; <s>unless I get in a bad mood again</s>

    --- Live Long, and Prosper ---

  10. #22
    Pal
    Pal is offline Senior Member
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    I thnk the induction is supposedly OK for Subutex because 1) It is supposed to be DIRECTLY suprervised by a doctor for that period if you go by the SAMSHA guidelines therefore no diversion or fear of people shooting Subutex, and 2) Supposedly the minute amount of Naloxone asborbed sublingually in Suboxone MAY cause w/d effects in opiate dependant individuals who did not wait the required time. But what makes zero sense to me is that Bup. itself is going to cause w/d effects to those indivudlas anyway by displacing the agonist with itself, a partial agonist thereby making you feel like ****! So, who cares about the TINY TINY amount of naloxone??

    Anyone wanna trade my Suboxone for their Subutex LOL!!! Really, I'm just kidding!!!

  11. #23
    mirage75 is offline Senior Member
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    I just started sub therapy today , and my induction was done using suboxone not subutex. Supposedly naltrexone is very poorly absorbed sublingually. According to my urine test , i still had opiates in my system so im guessing that at two days out a real dose of naltrexone would have thrown me into w/d. That didnt happen , all i experienced was relief...
    Another thing i have noticed , while reading the literature on sub , was that the plasma levels of bup were for some reason HIGHER (PAL mentions this in a previous post)in the population taking suboxone as opposed to an equivalent dose of subutex. Odd.. , and also , as of late there has been talk in the medical community of how extremely small doses of an antagonist actually seem to potentiate narcotics ; one study claiming that the effectiveness of morphine (which had been reduced by tolerance) was restored by 80 percent.....
    If i can find the article again i will post a link.

    -Chris

  12. #24
    Pal
    Pal is offline Senior Member
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    naloxone, not naltrexone is in Suboxone. I know, very similar names and they are related.

    Naltrexone can be taken orally, but nalocxone, as far as I know, is Narcan, whic is only added to supposd stop injection of the Suboxone. So I understand anyway...

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