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  1. #1
    mallomar Guest

    Default Does Bupe Heal Receptors?

    I'm wondering something...

    I know that bupe has antagonist characteristics. Does this in any way help your receptors heal (in other words, return back to normal)? Like will bupe in any way help your brain start producing natural endorphins any more quickly?

    Like if you cold turkey'd a habit and got past the physical stuff, then you have that period of boredom/depression to deal with. Does bupe, because it has some antagonist mechanism, help those receptors recover more quickly, and therefore speed up the time it takes for your to be producing regular endorphins/enkephalins/etc.?

    I can see that the bupe's antagonist effect is useful to prevent you from relapsing, from blocking opiates for 2-4 days (says 48 in the FAQ, says 3-4 everywhere else here, some places 24 hours). I can see that it is also useful so you don't abuse bupe too much end up with a ceiling to your high.

    Sometimes you hear people say that bupe "cleans out the receptors"- well yes, it has an antagonist component- but does that antagonist component allow your brain chemistry to return to semi-normal any more quickly?

    But my question specifically is: Do the antagonist qualties of bupe let your brain return to normal any more quickly? OR they play no role at all in that- the antagonist merely blocks other opiates and prevents you from abusing the bupe itself too much?

    Thanks.

    mallomar

  2. #2
    Hopeful is offline Member
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    quote:Originally posted by mallomar

    I'm wondering something...

    I know that bupe has antagonist characteristics. Does this in any way help your receptors heal (in other words, return back to normal)? Like will bupe in any way help your brain start producing natural endorphins any more quickly?

    Like if you cold turkey'd a habit and got past the physical stuff, then you have that period of boredom/depression to deal with. Does bupe, because it has some antagonist mechanism, help those receptors recover more quickly, and therefore speed up the time it takes for your to be producing regular endorphins/enkephalins/etc.?

    I can see that the bupe's antagonist effect is useful to prevent you from relapsing, from blocking opiates for 2-4 days (says 48 in the FAQ, says 3-4 everywhere else here, some places 24 hours). I can see that it is also useful so you don't abuse bupe too much end up with a ceiling to your high.

    Sometimes you hear people say that bupe "cleans out the receptors"- well yes, it has an antagonist component- but does that antagonist component allow your brain chemistry to return to semi-normal any more quickly?

    But my question specifically is: Do the antagonist qualties of bupe let your brain return to normal any more quickly? OR they play no role at all in that- the antagonist merely blocks other opiates and prevents you from abusing the bupe itself too much?

    Thanks.

    mallomar
    This was a question I asked a while ago but didn't get a response to. My guess is that this is probably wishful thinking on our part. I'm going to ask my doctor when I see him on Monday and I will report back.

  3. #3
    mallomar is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks- I'm not sure that anyone really knows. But speculation is ok too.

    mallomar

  4. #4
    ashley80 is offline Senior Member
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    Mall, speculating here: I would say no. My reasoning is that I detoxed off hydrocodone twice, both time with about 8-10 days of bupe, in a quick taper. After the last of the bupe wore off, my receptors didn't feel too great. Still had depression, cravings, mild insomnia, etc.
    I THINK the bupe just got me through the main WD's, then once my receptors were free and clean again, they started to go nuts. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it would have been worse without the bupe. I'm interested in hearing more on this.
    Maybe bup4pain has an opinion?

  5. #5
    greeneyez is offline Senior Member
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    When i first started on bup the doctor told me that bup would NOT make any more receptors, like if you take hydro's for a long time, your receptors reproduce and that is what makes you need more and more to get the same effect you got when you could just take one pill, but a month later your receptors have doubled and you need double the dose of hydro's to get the same effect.

    I was told with Bup, that the receptors will NOT multiply, but i think that the amount may deminish over time to get you back to the amount you had normally, before they all multiplied. I do not know if this is true or not but it was what i was told by my bup doctor, when he was explaining why bup is better then pills. So, i took it as they do heal up and eventually go back to normal.
    PS* my bup doctor lied about alot of stuff and just got arrested for illegal dealings so i do not know if any of what he said was true.But it made sence the way it was explained to me.Maybe Bup4pain, can correct me if i was told wrong information.

  6. #6
    checkin_in is offline Member
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    Hello, My first post here :) I have been reading for months.

    My DR explained the same thing as green's did. He also mentioned something I havent read anywhere, that I thought you all might find interesting.

    Picture yourself holding a 12 inch ruler vertical. When you use your DOC, say it is oxy, the oxy not only fills up all those multiplied receptors, but there is also a higher "stimulation" to those receptors. On the ruler (scale) the stimulation from oxy, hydro,etc. is up at the 12 mark. Methadone is around the 8 mark. Suboxone is VERY low on the stimulant side of the scale, maybe 3-5. This is when (I think) the receptors stop multiplying. I didnt write this down when he explained it to me, so I could be wrong. But it does make sense.

    Now, when I told him I didnt want to be rushed off of suboxone and asked his opinion. He said when I was ready we would reduce VERY VERY gradually (the next part is a quote) "it will be so gradual that your brain will have plenty of time to adjust. There will be all kinds of things happening, your brain will start producing endorphins and dopamine on its own". So, the way I took it, your brain does start to produce on its own. I'm sure there isnt a set mg or timeframe of when it starts but it does make sense.

    Anyway, I know this is my first post and is long LOL So I will stop now. I will write more on my situation in a different thread. I did switch from methadone to bup.

  7. #7
    mallomar is offline Senior Member
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    Welcome to the boards.

    I don't doubt that gradually it will readjust over time- just trying to figure out if bupe's antagonist properties have anything to do with that and/or speed it up, if anything.

    mallomar

  8. #8
    checkin_in is offline Member
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    I guess since it was my first post I didnt explain very well. I do not know if the antagonist helps or not.

    The way I understood it was, if your not "stimulating" those receptors (to make more) than they slowly start to die off. I would think if you cold turkey'd it, your brain would kind of go into shock????? Just like the rapid detox. Thats the way he explained it to me. I didnt think to ask about the healing process itself.

    This is a very interesting question. I would love to know the answer myself. I will ask my Dr on my next appt. Meanwhile I will scour the internet to try and find any info. This stuff is actually very intersting to me.

    as a side note.. thanks for the welcome!

  9. #9
    nutzmom is offline Member
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    This is a very interesting topic...to me at least. I was speaking to my counselor today about this, but he didn't explain it very well. I have a feeling Bupe4Pain will have the answer to this question.

  10. #10
    LilSheDevil is offline Junior Member
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    I was told the same thing as Green as well. Bup will NOT multiply the opiioid receptors, and in time they do go back to normal. Threw Detox that is the bodies way to get the extra receptors to die off, and get back to normal.[8)]
    Bup does NOT make the receptors go back to normal more quickly, but it does not add anymore either.:D
    I hope this helps you get a answer to your question.

    If life throws you lemons:make Lemonade.

  11. #11
    ashley80 is offline Senior Member
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    That would explain why my short periods on bupe didn't do anything for easing the depression and cravings after the bupe wore off. Where's Bup4?? I know he will have an opinion on this. Interesting.
    And, I second the welcome, Checkin. Jane, also new, is switching from meth to bupe. Check out her thread in this forum??? Thanks.
    Ashley

  12. #12
    Bup4pain is offline Senior Member
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    The short answer is: NO

    I also am dubious as to the validity of bupe not adding new receptors as well.

    Kappa and Mu receptors.... Full agonist fills both... brain makes new to adapt.. in comes bupe .. it primarily fills one. It has a high affinity for the Mu receptor..

    Judging from the effects of long term usage I would *suspect* the Mu receptors may increase (just like the Kappa's do with full agonist opiates), and this is what causes the PAWS we have experienced.

    Since they (mfg. and MD's) say Bupe does not have/cause dependency, which we KNOW is BS than why believe this "It does not cause new receptors to form." statement? Maybe not as easily, but I bet they do. Just like with full agonist opiates it is duration and dose related. This is reflected here by us folks who were on long term bupe usage. Dose is a large contributer as well to the dependence level.

    The MD's are just parroting what the Mfg. has said on the packaging insert and the initial hoopla of how bupe is God's gift to pain and addiction control.

    My personal experience proved it is not very effective on pain over long periods of time, and that it IS addictive. It's w/d is different than a full agonist opiate, but as hard or harder in ways, and a lot easier in others.

    Saying bupe heals receptors is BS! I does not heal anything it just masks symptoms while you body heals it's self. It may prolong the process, and may causes other issues with other receptors.

    No doubt the Kappa receptor will heal some while on bupe.

    Don't look at it as new receptors growing to catch the transmitters but as weeds growing around them to help hold the extra transmitters. When you cut the opiates the weeds take time to starve and shrink. They are still there, but weaker and shorter. As soon as you start using opiates again they pop back quickly. Since they are already there it happens quickly.

    Knowing what I know today I would love to debate and see FACTS which can definitively prove bupe does not cause new receptor formation. If the drug does not then why and what is the mechanism which IS causing the dependence?

    Just my 2 cents

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