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  1. #1
    afraid2bclean Guest

    Default what will I expect when taking subutex?

    [?]I am just wondering what to expect after I take my first dose of sub? Physical symptoms as well as psych? How will i need to know if/when to take more?If anyone could share their experiences of their first day and week it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you and Good luck to all of you!!!

    "Although the world is suffering, it is full also of overcoming of it." -Helen Keller

    Lani

  2. #2
    rikaard is offline Senior Member
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    Everyone is different and can maybe expect different results.

    I will just tell u how it was for me.

    I was on a Methadone script for Six Years so my body was pretty much saturated with narcotics
    but I was SURPRISED as well as amazed how EASY the transision was.
    They seem to do it slightly differently here in the UK, I was told not to count the hours before starting subutex but just to wait until I noticed the onset of my W-Ds.
    So as soon as I felt a bit rough nothing too bad I took the 4mgs of subutex as instructed by my DR.
    He told me that is I felt ok after an hour or two to then take another 4mgs, which I did.
    I myself didnt feel too bad at all, it was just like feeling a little off color and the thing that I was most pleased about was that I did sleep well, infact I did sleep like normal.
    The next day I got up and had my 8mgs subutex which was my agreed dose and there after I took 8mgs everyday.
    For the first few days I felt a little different to what I was used to when I was on Methadone BUT honestly for me it wasnt bad at all, it was more like having a very slight cold more than feeling like I was in W-Ds.
    I think the thing that we do differently here in England is they say take 4 mgs and if u feel ok take another 4mgs,you see they say that if you feel worse after your first 4mg dose to then wait a while until you feel better before taking the next 4mgs.
    I believe from what people in the USA have told me that over there you take some subutex and you keep taking a dose until you reach a comfortable level.
    Also over here its very Rare for anyone to get more than 12mgs a day, I think that IMHO this is a sensible approach as I think that Subutex is more powerfull than people think and you dont need massive amounts to be able to cope with your detox.
    Like I said I was on methadone for years and normally its a HORRID drug to come off but I managed ok just with 8mgs of Subutex.it was a 1000 times better than doing just a methadone taper.
    Anyway Im sure you will be fine,IMHO I would start of just with small dose and see how you go from there, you too maybe ok on just 8mgs and anyhow you should really discuss this all with your DR as like I said you guys do it slightly different over there and as you normally pay for your treatment it seems that your DRs are willing to script you larger doses that sometime you DONT need,try to use as little as possible after a couple of days u will be at a level thats good for you and Im sure that we can all deal with feeling a little rough for a short time, remember you are gona have to come off the subutex as well and the less you take then the easier it will be.
    Good Luck Im sure you will be OK.

    "The only thing we have to fear, is fear its self"........

  3. #3
    afraid2bclean is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks rikaard for sharing your experience with me. I will keep that in mind-lower dose the better for getting off of it.



    Lani

  4. #4
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    Afraid,

    I believe it depends on two things: how much of whatever you have been taking and how much sub is prescribed for you to take.

    This is my 6th day off sub after a 2+ year norco habit. I can tell you that for me, when I took my first 8mg sub, 30 minues later I felt my symptoms subside, one hour later I felt ok, 3 hours later I was zooming!! It was similar to the feeling one gets with the opiate class, but it lasted so much longer. I didn't really have many symptoms except when I cut back the dosage. For me, I was supposed to start at 12mg, then 8mg, then 4mg, then nothing. But after three weeks of taking between 8 and 12mg, I just quit cold turkey. So here I am. But you shouldn't have any problems with WD's from the sub.

  5. #5
    afraid2bclean is offline Senior Member
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    :)Thanks for the info "hoping for better days."
    I have been on Vicodin Es(same as Norco, I believe)7.5mg for 2 years. Dr. tried tramadol 1st-was up to 12/day=5 vicodin, and on the clonidine patch, and valium to sleep. On day 6 of not taking the tramadol(non-narc.pain med which works the same as vicodin-as far as opiate receptors,etc)but relapsed due to intense cravings that i had been fighting for 3 days prior.

    I still have not started the sub due to 2 reasons...
    #1 I am afraid of the unknown affects of sub and the long wait of being thru w/d before taking initial dose.
    #2 The addict in me, can't seem to stop grabbing for the percocet bottle(last vicodin-fri.; and only have 2 percocets left and have been on that since fri).

    I am afraid I have sabbotaged myself by starting to take vicodins for 3 days(20 pills)and starting percocet(20 pills) will make the transition harder for myself. I know it was stupid for me to do that but I have a toothache(need root-canal) and could not handle the pain. Now I have managed to refocus my intentions on wanting to get C&S and stay that way for good, NO RELAPSING!

    What do you think? Do you think I made it worse for myself? I have never taken H or coke b-4. Do you think that me starting back up and going thru all of those opiates again in a weeks time will make the transition harder for me based on your experience?

    I am planning to take the last percocets(2- 5mg) at 6:00pm. DO you think, with all that I have told you, and that is all, that I will be able to take my first dose of sub by 9-10am tomorrow morning? If my doc gave me 2mg sub tabs, how many honestly with my history i just gave you, do you think I will probably need to take? And at once or spaced apart?

    I was re-reading your comments and saw your statement about "3hours later and you were zooming." what do you mean by that? Is the subutex nake you feel the same as with the vicodins/percocets just without the high or what? No one has quite said what it makes you feel like? How about the cravings?
    [V]

    :)Thanks for your advice.


    Lani

  6. #6
    Mic Guest

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    Lani-
    Good idea to take your hydro/percs, whatever, the nite before, and start on the Sub in the AM. Just make sure to have at least 12 hours(preferably 15) from your last opiate before you dose. The zooming feeling the other poster was referring to was a mild buzz and burst of energy, (most likely) Remember that Sub is indeed a very powerful opiate, it just has a ceiling effect. Also, Sub is a very effective analgesic, and will deliver significant pain relief. As I reread your posts, I hear ya about why you're not starting. But what I hear more, is that you don't want to change! You need to get real with yourself, and be thankful you have the Sub as a transition to sobriety. If you're not ready to be clean, admit it. I'm not being a smartass; I'm simply giving you my opinion based on what I've read. Sounds like you want "an easier, softer way". Well, you know what, Sub IS the easier, softer way. Go for it, no more excuses. I have been exactly where you are. I assure you, the elevator only goes down, never up. You'll be happy to have given up the insanity.
    Best wishes in whatever you choose. Think about your family. You really aren't the center of the universe. Best, MICIMO

  7. #7
    afraid2bclean is offline Senior Member
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    Micimo-
    Thanks for that BIG wake-up call!!!I do understand why you may think that I don't want to be clean, but HONESTLY I do. I amjust afraid of the future.I am taking the percs before starting, because I dont want anything in the house to help me relapse. That's all!When I put things in my posts it's just trying to give out a info to get advice w/o writing a book and bore you all.Not everything I want to say comes out all at one time.Just what I feel and think at that moment.AT the same time, I am reading and taking in all the info from everyone's posts to help me understand what I will be taking and what to expect.
    But I have no intention of prolonging it any further. I will be starting the sub tomorrow. No if, ands, or buts.And do not get me wrong, I am very thnkful to have the sub, I am always afraid of the unknowing.Always have been. I have never been a risk taker. I am also concerned about my Doc's intentions and the low dose.So where you guys are doing okay, I am scared I will not be due to my doc's orders and weaning me off in a week. I just want to be sure I have enough to keep me sain until this friday's appointment.If that is wrong, I am sorry. This whole experience has been a nightmare. One i hope I can protect my kids from.Thank you for your insight!

    Lani

  8. #8
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    I personally waited over 24 hours to take my first dose, and I've heard that some people who don't wait experience some really bad effects.

    Afraid, what I'm basically saying is that the first time I took SUB, I got high. Of course, it was over 24 hours, but within 2 hours after taking it, I was high as a kite. I wouldn't worry about WD's from switching over to SUB. I would just make sure you wait until you're really feeling the WD's. You'll feel fine after taking that SUB, I can almost guarantee you!

    Also, it sounds like you and I have/had been taking the same dosage of hydros, so our withdrawals will probably be similar. One thing to realize is that you learn how to do things while on a specific drug. Because of this, when you completely detox, you're going to have to learn how to be efficient again. But the longer you stay on hydros, the longer it's going to take you to learn to live without the drug. There's certainly no good reason to continue using if you have the opportunity to use the SUB. Just make sure you stick to it or it will all be in vein. This site has helped me enormously so please keep us posted so we can help you through this as well.

    Cheers!

  9. #9
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    Afraid,

    Based on your bio, you have an extraordinarily busy life. I would like to tell you up front that you're probably going to want a good two weeks after you get off of the SUB to "adjust". I sure hope your husband is supportive enough to help you through this transition.

    Maybe I'm just looking to far into the future for you. You can maintain yourself on SUB for years and go off it when you want. I would just get yourself on the SUB for now. Being on that is way less destructive for your body than what you have been taking.

    Good Luck and let us know how you make out!

  10. #10
    mallomar is offline Senior Member
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    afraid2bclean,

    One thing you might want to think about it is that if you don't get on the Sub and keep going down the road you are, it will be with higher tolerances and stronger drugs. That fiending and withdrawal you're getting will get progressively worse with each attempt at getting clean. Embrace this golden parachute and get away from it while you still can. I was on hydro too and remember the days when I hardly got withdrawal at all- you know how many people told me to just got off back then so I wouldn't have the cravings/tolerance I have now? Plenty, but I didn't listen because I just wanted to get high. Only now am I realizing that it does really keep getting worse and so do the cravings and potential for relapse- it helps to keep reminding myself I need to quit now to save the future.

    This is my 4th-5th day on Suboxone. Did this week suck? Nope- it was not as good as hydro, but it really was pretty damn good compared to how I'd be without anything at all. Would I love to get high right now? Actually I wouldn't because I just took a Suboxone, but throughout the day I get psychological cravings. I also know that it will take 3-4 days after being on Sub for me to be able to get high on hydro, and that is plenty of time to talk myself out of it, and I'm fortunate for that "side effect." Yes, it has occurred to me to just put up with 3 days of no Sub and go on a nonstop hydro binge. But my track record tells me that I will not just go on one nonstop hydro hedonism fest- I will keep going on binge after binge after binge after binge. I cannot just have "one last high" because 1) the last one didn't really count or 2) "bottoming out" is subjective or 3) this time it will be different because I can go back to my recreational days or 4) I could max out more credit cards buying the stuff and the hydro will cover my feeling bad about that.

    It sucks to admit that I can't use opiates responsibly, but I have plenty of evidence of that. I can't keep playing a game with myself and convincing myself that it could be one way or another. I have messed up so many things and wasted so much money and alienated so many people that I just need to stop ****ing with myself and just do this. It is not possible for me to have the good high without the bad stuff- and that good high was fleeting at best, short-lived. It also helps me to realize that it is my opiate-addicted brain chemistry that is telling me it's worth it to keep getting high (or trying to), I need to realize that the real me wouldn't want that and does want to recover and does want to move on to a better life and doesn't want to have his life revolve around a pill. For me, hydro was among other things a way not to deal with the real world, and well- I've realized that I do have to deal with if I want any life at all. I can't keep saying "yes, but there are more bottoms out there, you still have more time to get high"- yes there are more bottoms out there- it is not worth it to be homeless and starving just to get high, but there is also a chance to get better and I'm taking that ticket away from this horrible life.

    To be perfectly honest, I was real tempted to quit Sub before writing this and get high, but it helps me at least to write out my feelings so I can see and read them and face them. I have to recommend that to anyone in the process of getting clean.

    Good luck afraid2bclean, the road ahead takes work, but at least it leads to something better than the other road. That much I'm certain of.

    mallomar

  11. #11
    fluffy is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Wren;I need some input on a post I'll be making soon about Ultram (Tramadol). You may have missed the references above about the Dr, and his use of Ultram, when you stated:
    “Hopefully he will have some later plans for right after
    detox to help you out. Good luck and don't be afraid,
    >>> I think your doc sounds ok!- <<<“

    I want to make sure that no one feels I am attacking or criticizing them, but I have to clear some inaccurate (or misinterpreted) information about Ultram (Tramadol) as to what it is and how it can effect you, so no one tries using it, without knowing what can happen. I will post this in a couple of obvious places, both as a reply and a as new thread, just to make sure everyone finds it.

    Afraid2bclean: Your Dr’s preference for Ultram (Tramadol) caused the warning bells in the back of my brain go off, full steam. Did he tell you the following?:
    Ultram is: “tramadol(non-narc.pain med which works the same as
    vicodin-as far as opiate receptors,etc)”
    If he did, my instinct would be to <s>kick him in the nu</s> [u]run-away, fast</u>! Ultram (Tramadol) is a narcotic! It is an opioid and is, contrary to original claims, addictive! Also, although I have not had the pleasure of taking Suboxone (any Bupe product), too soon after an opioid (synthetic opiate, i.e. Oxycodone, Morphine, codeine, etc), I am almost positive (Wren, correct me if I’m wrong), that if you took any Bupe product, while still having Ultram in your system, which I believe (?) would last longer than H, Oxy, Hydro, etc, you would experience same, or similar, horrid withdrawal reaction a Heroine user would experience by taking Bupe too soon after shooting up a couple of bags. Using Ultram to taper off of pain meds is like using Vicodin to taper off of Percoset, or visa-versa, possibly worse.
    To be continued; I have some reasearch to do, to verify some facts ...


    "I'm not obsessive, I just want to save the world" &lt;&lt;&lt;(Fluffy, on his "pink cloud")

  12. #12
    afraid2bclean is offline Senior Member
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    Hi everyone, Thanks for the big "kick-in-the-***", and I am gonna cme back to read this after taking my kids to school. I was kind of rushing but wanted to hear what everyone else says.

    ...Well...I was up all night...anxiety, cravings,etc. Waiting 15 hours and just said, "the hell with it." So I took it and I am terrified now. Terrified of what is gonna happen next or if it were too soon.
    Bye for now.
    P.S. That tastes like ****!!!!

    Lani

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