Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 13 to 24 of 34
  1. #13
    oxy4years is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    , , USA.
    Posts
    14

    Default

    don't do like my dumbass did i took the 2 8mg suboxone the dr scribed 2 8mgers a day and on the 3rd day i took oxy and completely wasted it i kept taking oxy all day about 6 40 mgers and nothing!!!!! so the next day i went back to the suboxone and been there ever since!!!! it does get better everyday!!! actually now i only take a half of a 8mger 4 times a day instead of 2 whole 8mgers twice a day!! seems to work better just stay busy as you can!! the caving should go away in a few days my dr said i'd be on 2 8mgers aday for 6 months then well see about tapering down off the suboxone!!! i got lucky and got a kewl dr that had drug problems himself so he knows how it is he went throught detox in the 80's he told me he did it all!!! and they do work for pain

    someday,someway gonna make it alright but not right now,,nickleback

  2. #14
    Bup4pain is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    , New England, USA.
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    Monkey... The blocking and stopping cravings are 2 very different things. As you have found out being on 8 mg SL of bupe a day will prevent Oxy from working.

    I am confused .. you say you want off the bupe because of side effects .. then in the next breath you say you want MORE?

    The side effects could be because of to much not to little.. I would try splitting your dose of 8 mg into 2 doses of 4 mg. Take 4 mg in the AM and 4 mg at 4 pm or 5 pm.. No later as it will mess up your sleep.

    "incontinence, irregular heartbeat, sexual dysfunction, sweating and dry mouth" Have not heard of incontinence before but the rest could be from to much. To little you will have typical W/D depending how long ago you were on Oxy it would be from it or if on bupe for over a couple of weeks from the bupe it's self.

    Typically the less bupe you adjust to the less the side effects and the MORE opiate like feeling you will get. The therapeutic effects of bupe decrease and the side effects increase as you increase the dose up past 12/16 mg or so a day.

    It may take a week for you to settle in at the 8 mg a day... be patient you will adjust.

  3. #15
    Zloi is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle, , .
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Hi PM. Hope you have, in fact, flushed all your other stuff and aren't just hosing us. Do you re-read your posts? You are really dying to do off the Bupe and return to your hydros. I had to laugh at your Bupe complaints: they are the same side effects (even less) as for hydrocodone! And yet you would have no qualms about gobbling some of that up again, I imagine. I have them all, to a mild degree, but compared to what it was like on methadone, or when I was abusing MS-Contin or Dilaudid, they are miniscule! I couldn't piss or dump to save my arse! Libido: zero. Irregular heartbeat, well, that's a new one on me. How do you know, anyway--someone monitoring you? You'll get tolerant to all this stuff, just have some patience. I just went up to 16mg this week, after being the first week at 4 and then 3 weeks at 8. My doc has a schedule she follows for getting folks settled on Bupe and does not up the dose very fast. She wants to take me to 24mg, since the blocker effect evidentally increases with the dose, but I am content to stay here, or even back down to 12 or 8. It IS addictive, and I want to be able to kick Bupe without a lot of mess when the time comes. In case you hadn't noticed, your life has already changed. You have free time on your hands which you used to spend high on hydros. Naturally, you are going to be obsessed with them for awhile, but you can help yourself a lot by looking for other activities instead. One suggestion: find some people where you live who are also in recovery (doesn't matter from what drug--could be alcohol). Hang out with them, try to figure out what they do to stay C&S from one week to the next. Get humble. Even an otherwise down-and-out looking person has something to teach you if they are straight, because you obviously don't know how to achieve that yet.
    But you may be surprised, too, at how generous and helpful those ex-addicts and alkies will be. Good luck again.
    -Zloi

  4. #16
    Bup4pain is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    , New England, USA.
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    Zloi, The MD is BSing you! :( 16 mg blocks just as well at 24. Is there a reason your MD think you are going to use? If 4 mg and 8 mg was working, WHY is she raising your dose?

    This make NO sense at all. It will just make for more side effects, and it will be harder to get off. Maybe that's why!

    Do you want to be on more? Do you feel like you are suffering due to to little bupe? Sounds like 8 was doing just fine ... Excuse me but I think this is absolutely crazy!

    Ask her what her REAL motivation is for PUSHING high dose buprenorphine instead of low dose if low dose works (prevents w/d and "holds" you.)

    8 mg will block opiate usage FYI. 8-12mg is the recommended *higher* daily dose range FYI.

  5. #17
    spring is offline Administrator
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    7,989

    Default

    Just want to add a couple things...

    Those side effects you are feeling could very well be from all those months of ingesting giant doses of TYLENOL. That stuff is total poison to your liver. One of many jobs your liver does is to detoxify your bloodstream on a daily basis. Hard to do when it's getting a constant dose of poison.

    The other thing is this....Sub/bup goes against everything we addicts have learned about how to take drugs. This is ONE drug where the LESS you take of it, the better it feels. Also, you have to give it a few days....it stays in your system much much longer than Vicodin does so it will build up in your system after using it for a few days.

    Not sure I understand the "white knuckling" til the next dose. You have to get used to the fact that even tho you are doing an opiate to stave off W/D, it will not give you a buzz. And if you take mega doses to try and get a buzz on it, it will have the opposite effect. This drug is nothing like the opiates we are used to taking.

    The cravings/obsession to go back to your usual drug(Vicodin for you)is very normal. The longer you fight that obsession, the less you will have it. That obsession WILL go away if you stay away from the Vikes.

    It must sound like we are all picking on you, but we're not. I can really only speak for myself but will take a chance here and speak for all of us who have responded to your thread...Some of us have been where you're at and are trying to help prevent someone else from making the same mistakes we have in our journeys.

    I have been free from my drug of choice for months but still, I am no "better" than you. I am just a shot away (IV user)from going back to active addiction just like anybody else. The trick to it all is to NOT take that first one after getting clean.

    I hope this won't keep you from posting your progress. You have taken the BIG step to get on the Sub, dont stop now! IT REALLY DOES GET BETTER!

  6. #18
    Zloi is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle, , .
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Well Bup4, this has been my only experience on Sub. I've researched it on the www, since I've yet to meet anybody else in the flesh who's taking it. It's a weird drug, that's for sure. There is some contradictory info out there about how induction onto it and it usage. This doc I'm working with is an "addictionologist," meaning her only source of medical income, that I know of, is from treating addicts. This could be good and/or bad. She seems to be pretty well up on latest treatment modalities, is always traveling to or organizing conferences, etc., heads the local ASAM, etc. So she ought to be aware of the latest medical opinion on using Bupe--as well as "conniving," ie, accepted protocol for keeping patients on the drug. Having patients who depend on you for regular medication (whether it's Bupe or something else) is a steady, secure income stream for a doc, especially if not accompanied by a lot of medical problems. That's evidently why docs are limited to 30 Bupe patients at a time. So it would be in her economic interest to keep someone on a high dose. I've heard her say she has brought patients up to as high as 48mg for maintenance. She sidestepped the question when I asked why such a high dose. In fact, she wouldn't say directly why she wants to bring me to 24mg. after I objected. Fact is, in the week since I have gone up to 16mg from 8mg, I've noticed a signficant increase in side effects. They are specifically narcotic ones, like, itching, occasional drowsiness (sort of mimics nodding off), possible sleep interference, as well as the old standbys, loss of libido, constipation, dry mouth, and urinary retention (PillMonkey mentioned "incontinence"--I've never heard of that on narcotics and wonder if he didn't mean retention?). I don't plan on going any higher on this drug and in fact, and going to drop down to 12 mg for this coming week and see how that feels. At this point, having been on Suboxone for a month now, I suspect I have experienced the maximum benefit I am likely to, which is, decrease of cravings. The blocker effect is okay, but not as important in my case as for people open to constant temptation, like nurses, or pharmacists, and so on. I'd have to go to some effort to procure narcotics now, so that in itself acts as a reasonable shield against relapse. Without broader experience with Bupe, esp direct patient feedback, I can't really know whether the doc is correct about seeking a higher maintenance level or just seeking to pad her income. But since, like most other patients out there, I am in control of what medications I put in my body, I can simply reject a higher dose. But as with other medications, dosing has to be individualized, taking different factors into account. In PillMonkey's case, for example, where he sounds like he's on the brink of relapse, as I can easily imagine he is, he might be better advised to put up with any side effects and take a higher daily Sub dose until his cravings have receded. Hopefully, he will get busy on other aspects of a full recovery plan so that the memory of the hydros will start fading into the background.

  7. #19
    Rohan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California, USA.
    Posts
    726

    Default

    Zloi, just one word of caution! Don't count on "having to go through the trouble to find a drug" as being a good enough safety net for you against relapse!! Don't fool yourself! You have to be on guard against relapse! Just because the drug is not right in front of you, does NOT mean that you won't relapse. When someone wants to get high NO obstacle is to big to stand in their way.
    Being clean is not contingent on avaliability or access. If you are going to stay clean it has to be because you want it and will work for it, not because it wasn't around. Because there will be that day when it is around, calling for you. It is then that you have to turn away. Sobriety is HARD work, work that we have to do everyday, and something that we don't get above or are bigger than. I know everyday that I run the risk of using. But everyday I CHOOSE not to use because I don't want to, not because the drug was not avaliable....we all know it is always avaliable somehow, somewhere....we have to say no!
    I don't mean to jump on you, and I hope you don't misunderstand me, I just got a feeling (I could be wrong) from your post that you were feeling that if it isn't in your face, you will be okay, and it's not that simple. I know you are strong, I just want you to be sucessful. So be careful out there. All my best!

  8. #20
    Zloi is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle, , .
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Thanks for your concern, Rohan. I don't know where you got the idea that I am "strong"--I'm a total wimp when it comes to staying C&S! I got away with "chipping" for years, but it finally caught up to me in the late 90s and I've been struggling ever since. I'm glas that an alternative like Buprenorphine has become available, although after a month on it, I'm beginning to feel like its value is limited, and am starting to think ahead to the day when I'll be off it. Even though in a strict sense, staying clean IS contingent on the drug's availability (if it isn't around, you can't do it) I didn't mean to imply that, just because one hasn't used recently, doesn't mean that person won't go to absurd lengths to get loaded should they get fixated on doing so. The addict's vulnerability will always be that peculiar twist in their thinking which makes them want to use again. This "twist" exists because their previous abuse history has alterad their brain chemistry (some say genetics is involved as well) and is independent of circumstances, ie. whether one is depressed or exhilarated, furious or indifferent, whether drugs are in the room or not, etc. However, the latter factor, translatable as staying away from slippery places, definitely makes it easier to keep the obsession under wraps (you know the old saw, 'out of sight, out of mind'). In the early stages of sobriety (which I've been through enough to know!) few addicts can truthfully say they are staying abstinent because they don't want to use that day. They do so because the alternative to sobriety--continued use--is disastrous for them, and makes sobriety endurable no matter what its discomforts. In my case, I have also needed a lot of sheer faith--faith that someday, maybe not a very near day, either, but at some point in the future, I will feel better, and be proud of myself for having made the decision every single, individual day up to then to stick it out and stay C&S NO MATTER WHAT (the "sobriety priority"). Sometimes on a cold, foggy, rainy day, it can be hard to imagine the sun will ever shine again, but then, an addict's mind is easy prey for adverse psychology. Which makes it imperative that we not be alone (isolate) too much. But that's another topic. [8] Be well!

  9. #21
    Rohan is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara, California, USA.
    Posts
    726

    Default

    Zloi, I think I misunderstood your post that I was responding to. I gathred from your post that one of the things you were counting on to keep you from using was the difficulty of "the score". So here I am laughing to myself thinking, "Yeah right, any addict would jump through hoops to score." How many of us have been told that dope was avaliable, we just had to go pick it up and pay xx amount etc, etc. How many then would say, "Naw, it is too much trouble"? I know there were times when I'd have driven all night (never had to, but would have) if that meant I could score. I know I am blah, blah, blahing away here! I think you get my point; You need more willpower than that to get clean. Obviously from you posts, you DO have the willpower. I am sorry that I was doubtful of you!

  10. #22
    Zloi is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle, , .
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Actually, most addicted people, relying on willpower alone, are unlikely to succeed in the long run. That's why it is crucially important to build up a support network when attempting to stay straight for good ("for good" meaning, as a lifestyle, not just because you ran out of money or something). Isolation is fatal to staying clean. As I said, for me, there is an element of faith, as well. I don't espouse religion, per se (though there are plenty who do), but if left to our own devices, well... A sick mind can't be expected to cure a sick mind. Addicts need outside help, as they have some of the sickest thinking imaginable. Not to pick on Pill Monkey, cause we all do it, but look at his posts--they are ridiculous coming from someone claiming to want to get straight. Only his mind is too warped at the moment for him to see it. Sorry PM, nothing personal, honest!

  11. #23
    pillmonkey is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Redwood City, CA, USA.
    Posts
    20

    Default

    the problem was/is...I wasn't willing to get the support...or quit. I can't get on the same page w/ my doctor and have relapsed as I try to find another doctor. I was trying to do it on my own (without support) and when I didn't have sufficient blocking effect from the suboxone...the cravings were too difficult to ride out.

  12. #24
    Zloi is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Seattle, , .
    Posts
    224

    Default

    I'm sorry to hear you have relapsed. My guess is you never did throw away your stash. Did you keep taking the Suboxone at 8mg/day? If not, well, that would help explain it, too, but if so, did it not impede the effect of whatever you've relapsed on? I don't know where you live, but you might try searching out some local NA or AA meetings. Even if you have no alcohol problem, in a good AA group there will be folks who know exactly where you're coming from--it wouldn't hurt you to come clean with them, eat some crow, get humble about where you are at now, which is, Ground Zero. Take your phone book with all your "using buddies" in it and trash it. Burn the forged scripts or the docs or whatever your source of pills is. I know this is a big step, and probably beyond you unless you have the backing of some folks you trust. Turn to family, if understanding, or good (STRAIGHT) friends, and use the phone nos. you get from NA/AA! You have to start somewhere, and as you have realized, you can NOT do it by yourself. Furthermore, if you are willing to have a little faith that you WILL feel better soon, you will not put off action any longer. YOU are the only one who can change your situation. The sooner you start, the sooner you can anticipate an end to your nightmare. Otherwise, you may be living it for a long time to come, or until you kill yourself. Keep checking back here. There's no such thing as flunking out in this most deadly of challenges.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Information in this forum is not monitored or provided by a medical professional. The information reflects member opinions only. Do not act on advice from these forums without first consulting a qualified medical professional. All content is copyrighted and protected by Aelius Group.