Thanks so much for your advice! I think the distance in our relationship and the fact that he refuses to drag me into this is going to prevent me from being there for him when he goes through it. Knowing him and his character in trying to protect me from everything that is bad, I probably won't hear from him often. Perhaps once or twice a week. I don't mind though as long as I know that he is ok and on the road to recovery. It's lucky that I am in contact with his parents. I've heard something about a 20 day thing from people on subs??? I think it's like, don't stay on subs for more than 20 days??? Have you heard about it? Does it get addictive after then or something? I'm sorry if these are stupid questions... I'm pretty naive... and I know that's not a good thing. I have never really been exposed to this sort of thing before. Only mates who would use weed on a rare ocassion!

I can tell you really love him.If he's anything like me then he's embarrasses to talk about it with you because he knows it's causing you pain.As for the 20 day thing I really don't know but there are many experts here to answer that that question.I wish I knew.I was on sub for many years (5 to be exact)Sub did help me get my life on track and I would probably do it again if I was in the shape active using left me in.My husband thought about posting how he felt about it in the family section but he hasn't done so yet.I wish he would because he's now an expert on it.He was very active in getting me the help I needed.I consider myself one of the lucky ones to have such a man in my life who supports me 100%.It did cause him so much pain that he never let me see.There are face to face groups that can offer you even more help like ALANON.I don't know how you feel about that but if you can just explain to him that you love him and worry about him maybe he will include you in his attempt at recovering.I was so embarrassed about my using that I didn't even want to tell my husband I relapsed yet again and he even thought I was cheating on him.It killed me to cause him so much pain.He rallied for me and supported me getting on sub if that's what was going to help me get off the pills.He didn't like the fact that I was using a drug to get off drugs but he traded one devil for another.When I had to cold turkey off the 16 mgs he took really good care of me and I don't think I could have done it without him.I wanted to check into a hotel and go through it alone because I didn't want him or my son to see me flip flopping in withdrawal but looking back I'm so glad he was there for me.I don't know if anything I said has helped you but that's how it went for me.My withdrawal lasted 2 months but I was on a very high dose and am so happy it's behind me now.I wish you and he the best.PM,post or email me anytime ok

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

Thanks for your story G-I. I just recently got off Sub in the past 2 months. I ended up using H to try and get off the Sub but I was on such a tremendous amount of H due to my tolerence from the Sub, that my w/d from the H were pretty damn bad. So I ended up taking the Sub to get off the H, in other words I didn't accomplish a damn thing by getting on the H, and was at 8 mgs instead of 16 when I went into the detox. There they took me down from 8 mgs in 3 days! Not recommended! Worse w/d I've ever had! Still am paying for it. I really need to exercise but after only 2 hrs at work I am totally exhausted that all I can do is sit there like a lump. Also only getting 2- 21/2 hrs of sleep for the past 2 months which doesn't help with trying to work out. Plus, I am on a mania from hell that was either brought about from w/d of Sub, or the $600 worth of crack I was smoking a day when the s&*t hit the fan. I am wired in the head and tired in the body everyday. Very strange feeling. But I am so glad to be off of Sub!!! I know all this will end sometime.
I want to thank everyone who put up with me months ago. I have finally found freedom! But I paid a helluva price as we all do.

YES make that a sticky. Thank God you survived all that and yes your life was interrupted but is now back! And your hb still at your side. You are lucky, blessed, and thank you for sharing. And so glad you came out of that it is SO scary to me.
Much love and respect,
annie [xo][;^)]

Anne

Hey Spacejam,
Are you still doing crack? Not good if you are.I can't imagine taking any type of a stimulant while going through opiate withdrawal(sub included).I hope as of this posting you are clean & Sober because you deserve to live life free of the hell of using.I agree with you that sub withdrawal is hell.I remember thinking to myself that I would have rather went cold turkey of the friggin hydros I got on sub for.I am by no means anti sub because I think there are people out there who can benefit from it but maybe those are the ones who chose to be lifers on it.Maybe it's the lesser of two evils?I just know that when in active addiction I almost lost everything but I had no business being on sub for 5 years.

Annie,
yes I am very much blessed and lucky to have the family I have.I was recently in a position that made me realize that I have a wonderful life and a wonderful family.I see this through clear eyes now.What a blessing.Thank you for your kind words.

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

Yes Gi I am totally clean! Its been VERY humbling to go from 10 yrs totally clean to almost 60 days. But it sure beats the other options that we have as addicts. I feel VERY blessed that I didn't lose anymore then I did during this past relapse. Hope your doing better and things seem to be getting better for me, and for that I am truly grateful!

I have been off my drug of choice now for 27days. I left detox because i didn't want to take methadone.. I have tried to detox off methadone before and it was a nightmare I vowed never to do it again. When I discovered suboxone I thought it was a miracle drug. I detoxed off my drug off choice using suboxone several times before. I entered an IOP program 3 weeks ago and told them I had been breaking up an 8 milagram sub to ease my pain. They put me on 4mlg a day. My detox was smooth.. I was able to sleep for the first two weeks and was in more mental anguish then physical. I begged them to reduse my dose. They refused.. Long story short I ended up leaving the detox. I didn't want to substitute one drug for another any more. I thought my detox was over. I took my last half 2milagrams on tuesday. Wed i felt ok and was able to function during the day. Wed night I barely slept. Thursday morning I woke up with a palpatating heart and aches and pains.. I'd been off my drug of choice for nearly a month!! I didn't understand why this was happening!! Its been nearly 3days now without sleep. I'm kicking all over again.. The suboxone postponed my detox process, The pain is awful. I wish i'd never taken it at all.

Welcome to ODR deakonues....the suboxone did'nt postpone your detox from your DOC. You're experiencing WDs from the suboxone. The half life wound down.

You might read some of the other stickys...then maybe start a thread(topic) of your own. You'll get more and faster responses.

<center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>

girlinterupted, Congradulations! I know what you experienced, just not the endurance. Some day I must do the same. Thank you for the vision.

Hey there achange,
I know many people say this but if I can do it you certainly can.I just hope you don't have to go through what I went through.Today I can be thankful that it's behind me but at the time I wasn't.If the circumstances would of been different I probably would have been a lifer on sub.So many are so in tuned to the changes the body goes through while on sub but I wasn't one of them.I thought i was acting normal.I now know different and also know it's not a chemical I ever wish to be put on again.I have so much to lose and damn I have a good life and want to keep it that way.

During the month of July i went through something really traumatic in my life and made it through without resulting to using to cope.That says a lot for me because the old me would say screw it and numb it out.That's the key isn't it to live life even during hard times without putting chemicals in my body.As I sit here I am thankful that I'm not high or that I'm not sticking a freaking sub under my tongue.I only hope my story helps others to know that YES they can get off it and life is good without it.Good luck to you.

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

Welcome deakoneus,
I agree with jdude and he seems to be the master.Sub is tricky because even after you stop taking it it takes awhile for the half life to wind down so withdrawal is delayed.It really sucks IMHO.I will have to look to see if you posted a thread somewhere.

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

Hey Spacejam,
I'm so happy you are clean and sober now.I agree we are lucky we didn't lose everything.I try to let that keep it fresh in my mind.Whatever works right?The awesome thing is that you have stayed clean for 10 years and I know you can do it again.I follow your posts.Take care and I'm rootin for ya!Congrats!

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

I guess I am experiencing some PAWS after all.My legs are hurting me constantly.It's really starting to drive me crazy.It's not as intense as the leg pain you get when in withdrawal but it's enough to have me taking Alieve every day(doesn't even work)!I am just plain frustrated and down right cranky.I don't know what to do about it and it's been 5 months since I came off sub.I just needed to vent because this is getting old.

They pains are at their worst at night and when I lay down to go to bed I can't keep them still.Doesn't seem fair but I know I know....life's not fair.I am also extremely depressed and in a major transition in my life.all this stuff at once is overwhelming me.



"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'

Lovely GIRL now in life!
Please eat potassium and have some quinine water for those legs. I know they hurt, shower after shower will help as well.

How lovely you came on here to explain what it is like to those who are considering it or just starting to detox. Your way is such that it is like an outreached hand to pull others up with your very own life experience. That is what I call a treasure.

In his Christmas Speech the Archbishop of Canterbury asked the following:
But it set me thinking - what would our life be like if we really believed that our wealth, our treasure, was our fellow-human beings?

This so reminded me of you.

<center>A key to the door of the Inner Treasures
By Rahasya

Every living being in existence, be it a plant, an animal or a human being, is born with a potential, and has the longing, the urge, the drive to fulfill its potential, to live itself.

For a flower this means to become this specific flower It means for the seed to die, to take the challenges of a vulnerable sprout to find its way through the earth into the sun, to take the challenges of the weather and to finally explode into its flowering. Reaching the fulfillment of this potential is not guaranteed. Any time there is a possibility for the sprout to die, to be uprooted by wind, floods, drought or other catastrophes. Nevertheless the desire, the longing and the urge of every living being is, to discover these intrinsic qualities that want to be lived and shared in existence.

</center><center>As the mystic Osho says in one of his discourses, the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom are living their essence already. The program is inbuilt. A dog is born a dog, lives as a dog, and dies as a dog. He is spontaneous in that expression of life. He does not think whether he should be anything else than a dog. The same is happening with a rose, or a lotus or any other kind of flower or plant. It grows and becomes that which it is meant to become. And in that growing it continues to live in oneness. No animal or plant ever experiences separation.

The human being seems to be different. The human being is born with a potential, and then it is up to him or her to nourish that potential, to develop it, to realize the essence, or to forget it. As we are brought up according to ideas of our culture, of our society, of our family, we are usually not so much supported in discovering our intrinsic potential. Our whole focus aligns itself with the demands of our surroundings. We are told: "Become!" And in trying to become, we waste most of our lives in creating a more and more refined personality without ever wondering who we are. Very seldom somebody tells us: "Be!" Through the conditioning of becoming we suffer many experiences of separation, and alienate ourselves more and more from who we are already. This alienation is the main cause of suffering in the world.

Counselling can initiate a healing process for this suffering.

What we call healing in this time is not just healing of the physical body, it is also healing of many misunderstandings of the mind, of the past, that has created wounds. These wounds are carried in the aura, the energy field surrounding and pervading each person.</center>
<center>[i][b]Most of the suffering in life happens, because we feel split, separate and disconnected from our source. Suffering happened because we feel pushed or pulled, feel under pressure of some outside forces, where we become slaves and victims of outer circumstances, rather than masters.

This victimization and suffering is a misunderstanding. It is due to energy moving out trying to

Thank you Annie.

I'm still having the same problem and I have to be careful with potassium because of another health issue so out of luck on that.

Why does this last so freakin long????
I'm highly irritated and it probably shows in my post and I apologize but this is as real as it gets about coming off sub after so damn long and to top it off I am craving now too.Every day all day I think about popping pills even after five years!Feeling a little hopeless right now and just looking for a place to put it all down and this is the place.

"work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt, and, dance like no one's watching."

Namaste'