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  1. #1
    BupeBastard is offline Junior Member
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    Default Kratom for bupe withdrawls?

    Hi, I am about to come off of bupe and have done a long taper, got the appropriate medication. all that jazz. however ive been reading about kratom and am wondering if it can help make bupe withdrawls not so bad? ive tried once to come off bupe and really want it this time. so, has anyone had any good experience with kratom and bupe withdrawls?

  2. #2
    Sluggo's Avatar
    Sluggo is offline Senior Member
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    there are several folks here that have experience with kratom...none of it good.

    kratom becomes its own beast...and very difficult to come off of.

  3. #3
    BupeBastard is offline Junior Member
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    hmm ive heard otherwise? ..that the kratom is much weaker than the sub. and taking it in small amounts could be benefical?

  4. #4
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    I never have done it but I do hear it addictive... not just a one time dose does it. So what if like many addicts this takes the place of sub, what will you do to fix the wd from the Kranton?

    I, myself cant seem to do anything thats addictive and keep a handle on it... sh*t smoking, swiss miss ice cream I go overboard with. Only you know can really decide but I would read here and see what happen to others with it.

    Wouldn't it be a drag to DRAG out the sub wd longer then it already is? I am all for taken comfort meds like Imodium, clonidine, sleeping time tea, warm milk, bendryl.. motrin is my fav, melatonine, some like tryptophane,

    I am partial to b12 injection monthly also but that has to come from a MD, vits and 5htp. I tried the fish oil but couldn't take the smell till recently.

    We had some try the Chinese formula and paid dearly for that... only made the wd a bit more prolonged.

    Before I would put another poss addiction substance I would research the hell out of it...then at least you know what your up against. Not pending on the lit. you get from the companies that sell it but from those who survived it.

    Good luck on you jump..

    Bonita

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  5. #5
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    Ali_Montella is offline Senior Member
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    I personally have not tried it either but my opinion is if you still have that mentallity of wanting to take some kind of opiate to overcome some other kind of opiate then being on sub didnt really make that much of a difference at all in dat aspect. Sub is tool which is meant to help kick start ya life and change ur mentallity and addictive behaviour. Now am not saying one shud not taking nothing at all to come off sub but my view is that something shud only be used to come off sub if absolutely necessary. Even thinking about taking something to come off sub before actually going through days without sub is a a beast itself, what i mean by that is u really shud not be thinking or expecting to take something like a kratom or any other opiate to come off sub. Wait till ur past few days and see how ya feel. Whole point of sub is to tell urself u dont need anything to come off sub other then few supplements or something (if they make a any difference at all). The whole time i was on sub and afterwards i only ever took codien for a lower back pain and that was for a day or 2 & i was on sub for 4 years. A slow taper together with excercise and changing mentallity including sorting any worries, issues etc shud be enough to come off sub. But everyone is different, ppl have different mentallity to eachother so some ppl might need something to come off something then others. Good luck in coming off sub and i wish a speedy recovery without too much discomfort.

    "Where there is a Will there is a Way"

  6. #6
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    Hey BB....Welcome. There's a big difference in the Kratom...it's not an opiate, but addictive. Whatever your choice, stay away from the extracts!

    What's your sits with the sub..dose..time on? Maybe a reasonable taper plan might be a better first choice?

    Jay

    <center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>

  7. #7
    4Degrees's Avatar
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    Kratom Pharmacology

    Mitragynine is a partial agonist of the mu- and delta-opioid receptors. This may account for its apparent efficacy in treating opiate withdrawal (see Babu et al. 2008). Because kratom acts as both a stimulant and a sedative, secondary alkaloids may be pharmacologically important.

    Addictive Potential

    There are reports of physical dependency after frequent, heavy kratom use. Individuals who use it regularly or in large doses may find it difficult to stop. Withdrawal symptoms include irritability, yawning, diarrhea, runny nose, and pain in the joints or muscles.

    There's more info on this link

    http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_basics.shtml

    Sounds like it's not classified as an opiate, but it pretty much is, in fact it says its a partial agonist, just like sub, not sure if its long acting or not, but if it is it would be pretty worthless to use kratom to try to get off of sub... Peace.

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  8. #8
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    kratom is worth avoiding. it's expensive and offers almost no benefit. abstinence is the answer to the problem, not some poor wanabe opiate.

  9. #9
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    I did Kraton, Subs, Methadone I did it all and the Kratom is not the way to go you mine as well go back to using. The stuff sneeks up on you and BAM now you are addicted to Kratom as well. Just to the subs and set your time of cutting back and just jump. I am sorry to say but getting clean SUCKS *** it is not easy and you will feel like hell for a few days, a few weeks, a few months or a few years everyone is different but if you go to Kratom you are just setting yourself up to fail.

    Tim

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  10. #10
    KratomAddict is offline Junior Member
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    Here is my experience with Kratom:

    I've been addicted to the stuff for the past year. The addiction got really bad in the last few months, jumping up my price-per-month to well over 1000 dollars. I was using the FST extract.
    I just now (at 2:30am) took my subutex for the first time. 4mg first, then 4mg more after half an hour. I'm now feeling the oncoming of the effects. I really hope that these feelings maintain for the day, it's wonderful. I'm not high, but I feel good. My body can definitely tell that it's not getting kratom, but the sub is more than making up for it. So we'll see how this goes. Wish me luck ;)

    Here's my opinion on Kratom from my experience:

    I'm not going to say that kratom is the devil or that it's something especially terrible, it's not. It's just another opiate. It reacts in the brain the same way that heroin does, it hits all the same receptors (this is what my doc told me). It can be every bit as bad as any other drug that works on those receptors.

    Listen, the best way to do this is to just quit cold turkey. A stronger man than myself would have just locked himself in a room and toughed it out. I'm in great shape physically and don't think the WD would prove to be actually deadly for me. So I'm not going to die, but the hell if I'm gonna do it! I've been in WD, I was just there an hour ago. It's terrible. So let's move past the cold turkey thing, because that stuff SUCKS (even though it's the best thing sometimes)

    So, you're coming off of bupe. What is your dosage currently at?
    I'd say taper down to 1mg, if you haven't already. That's step number one, don't even think about kratom till that's done.
    Ween down the bupe use as much as possible. Try to quit cold turkey, see how far that gets you.
    But-
    And this "but" comes with a HUGE WARNING:

    KRATOM IS EXTREMELY ADDICTIVE. It sneaks up on you. You think you've found heaven at first until before long you're rotting in your own personal hell. USE ONLY WITH EXTREME CAUTION!

    But, I don't think that it would be a "terrible" idea to use kratom to help come off the bupe. But use it wisely, and don't use it if you don't absolutely trust yourself around opiates (none of us should, that's why we're here). I've actually heard many success stories of using kratom to come off of other opiates. So yes, it will absolutely "work" if by "work" you mean that it will bind the same receptors that the bupe did and give you a high.

    Here's what I'd do in your situation *if* you are going to be trying it anyway, you might as well try it like this, from somebody with way to much experience with the stuff.

    Buy some bali from a reputable online vendor. Make sure it's a good vendor, none of that shaman crap. Wait until you absolutely cannot take the WD any longer and then toss and wash a spoon full of the bali. Wait 30 minutes, if that doesn't work for ya, try another spoon full. Keep repeating this process until you find your proper dosage, it's different for everybody.

    This will get you high. So, yeah, it'll help with the WD, because you'll be high. That's what it does.

    Only use the stuff when you can absolutely take no more of the WD. And only use a little bit. That's why you should only buy the bali, because it tastes like sh*t washed with sh*t and it's disgusting to gulp down your throat. It also makes you sick if you take too much.

    The second you upgrade from the Bali, you're in trouble. That's when you're addiction is getting the better of you and if you think otherwise you are lying to yourself.


    So, yeah, I do think that kratom can "help" bupe WD by getting the user high and therefore putting off the feelings of the WD.
    It is an opiate, no matter what anybody tells you, it hits the same receptors in the same way. It's an opiate.
    Just use extreme caution when using kratom. Don't use it if at all possible. It is just as dangerous as any other illegal drug. Just because our government hasn't found out about it yet does not mean that it is better than any other opiate.


    Good luck on your journey.

    Regar

  11. #11
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    quote:Originally posted by KratomAddict
    The addiction got really bad in the last few months, jumping up my price-per-month to well over 1000 dollars. I was using the FST extract.
    Welcome KratomAddict from yet another kratom addict ... don't know how much FST extract you were using, but I was taking that, the Oxindole, and the UEI together during my extract days. Most expensive drug habit I ever had.

    quote:I just now (at 2:30am) took my subutex for the first time. 4mg first, then 4mg more after half an hour. I'm now feeling the oncoming of the effects. I really hope that these feelings maintain for the day, it's wonderful. I'm not high, but I feel good. My body can definitely tell that it's not getting kratom, but the sub is more than making up for it. So we'll see how this goes. Wish me luck ;)
    Okay dude, listen, IMO you need to get down to a much lower dose of sub ASAP and get the hell off it if you really want to beat this addiction. You should NOT feel wonderful. You're going to get addicted to the sub, trust me, same thing happened to me. I got off kratom extracts with sub and then took sub for seven months and then started throwing Bali on top of the sub. I know you didn't ask for advice but let me just tell you that you're playing with fire if you don't lower your sub dose pronto ... would you like a taper plan from someone who did the kratom thing?

    Nice to have someone else here who realizes the raw power of the stuff.

    Take care,
    Danielle

  12. #12
    KratomAddict is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Danielle,

    Really nice to meet you. I've read most of your posts here. You're somewhat of an inspiration to me, at least, to start on my attempt to kick the habit completely.

    Yeah, I spoke too soon on that whole "I feel wonderful" boat. I felt wonderful in the sense that I was in severe WD mode and I wasn't certain that the sub was going to work for me. The "Wonderful" feeling I had was just the WD symptoms almost completely fading away. No euphoria, just normal.

    But the day has been going on...

    I'm feeling alright right now. Not as energized as in the morning (the coffee could have something to do with that), but I'm content. My head feels strange, kinda like the WD from the kratom is lurking somewhere deep within it, but the Sub is blurring it for me.

    Thank you so much for your concern! I really appreciate it. I assume that we were going to the same vendor (D at S, if ya know what I'm sayin), I'm sure that guy can buy a boat now with all the money we've been giving him.

    And thanks for offering up a taper plan. I'd love to see what you have, thanks.

    My doctor came up with a plan for me where at DAY 10 I'm supposed to be down to 2mg. That's as far as his plan goes for now. I plan on, after that, tapering down to 1mg and then jumping ship on drugs entirely after my next visit home to see my parents (don't want them to see me in full WD mode).

    I figure that if I take the bupe just long enough to get that damned kratom out of my system, I'll hopefully be able to do the cold turkey thing.

    But still, about the trading one addiction for another. I'm a realistic person. I know that there is a HUGE chance that I'll get addicted to the bupe. But I'm willing to risk it to rid myself of the kratom forever, which I tried but could never accomplish on my own.

    I've already gotten rid of my entire stash. I'm sending an email to D to tell him to please never sell me anything ever again. I'm sure he'll oblige, he is a very nice guy and I've given him tons of money. I'm done with that plant. I want to be done with ALL drugs, but that plant was THE hardest thing for me to stop because it gave me everything that I wanted. It made me better at everything and in every way, until the good feelings started to fade.

    I think that I needed that 8mg today, but from this point on I'm never gonna exceed the 4mg and taper from there. Today was baaaaaaaad in the morning. I've been downing the 10ml bottles of FST in two days tops. I would take a dropper full at a time every two hours on the hour. That is how I was living. Every moment was spent obsessing over kratom. Ridiculous. (Yeah, I lLOVED the oxindole, but they stopped selling it. Oxindole was so speedy and delicious. I used to say that it tastes like "toxic chocolate". The UEI was also a fav of mine. You have good taste... or not...)

    My ultimate goal is to quit drugs. My primary goal is to quit kratom. I'm just happy with the sub right now because I can take just one little pill in the morning and then be content for the rest of the day, not having to think about kratom and fed ex delivering my kratom and wondering where my package is and missing the fed ex guy so now I have to sit here and feel like sh*t until 7pm when I can take the bus down to USC, walk like a zombie past the college students, get my package at the fed ex location and then dose up in the starbucks bathroom and come out feeling... Great.

    I don't plan on sticking on the sub for more than a month. Of course, I know that plans always change, but this one seems doable. I want it enough, I think.

    One thing I know that is for certain: I AM NEVER DOING KRATOM AGAIN. Maybe I get addicted to the bupe, but at least it's not kratom. At least I don't have to take it every two hours and go through the BS I had to with kratom. That stuff is just bad news. I'm gonna try my hardest not to get addicted to the bupe, but for now, I'm just content that this is my first day since... since... I can't even remember how long it's been, but anyway, since I actually spent a day without kratom. A

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