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  1. #1
    Allison81's Avatar
    Allison81 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Starting Suboxone, have some questions

    Hi Everyone, My name is Allison. I have been addicted to Oxycodone for about four years. IV for a year and a half. Well about a year and a half ago I started Sub. It worked great. After three months I relapsed though. Then the downhill spiral started. Eventually I got on Methadone. For the last, I would say seven months I have been on Methadone on and off. I was on 70mgs for the last three weeks.

    On Saturday I went to the sub doctor, because this time I am really ready to stop this madness. He gave me 16 Oxycodone 30mg, to get the methadone out of my system. I was supposed to take four Roxys on Sat, Sun, Mon, and Tues.(On Wednesday I was just supposed to take Clonodine and Klonopin to ease the withdrawal, and start the Sub on Thursday) Well today is Monday and I only have one pill left. I don't believe I am feeling the withdrawal from the Methadone yet.

    I figure I will do my last pill tomorrow morning, and then when I start to not feel good, I will take my Clonodine and Klonopin. (He prescribed me those for the day that I was supposed to not take any roxys. Then the next day after that, I will start the Sub.( Most likely Wednesday)

    My plan is to only take the Sub for about five days. I went to an inpatient detox last year and that is what they did for me. It worked really well. I was not sick when I left detox.

    Basically when I went to detox last year I was only on 45mgs of Methadone. My last dose then was on a Friday and by Tuesday morning, I was in agony, and they started the Sub. Now I'm on 70mgs and today is Monday and I dont feel bad. Maybe it's because I had the roxy's.

    My question is, how long do you think it is going to take for me to start not feeling well? I'm kind of scared because I only have one Roxy left. I probably shouldn't have even started taking the roxy's until today, but I'm an addict and it is too hard to have the pills and not take them.

    Also, when I went to the sub doctor, I did not tell him I was on Methadone Maintenance. I just told him I take Methadone when I am unable to get ahold of Roxy's. I was afraid he would want me to get on a lower dose of Methadone before he gave me Subutex. I know at the Methadone Clinic they have Subutex, but they won't give it to you unless you are on a dose of less than 30mgs.

    Oh yeah, my last dose of Methadone was on Friday. When am I going to start feeling icky?

    Thank you everyone for your responses. I appreciate it. I hope I am posting this in the right place. I was debating if I should have posted on the Methadone forum or this one.

    Allison

  2. #2
    Jymi's Avatar
    Jymi is offline Senior Member
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    In my experience methadone was a tricky beast, sometimes I would go into hot flashes and lethargy within 18 to 24 hours and other times it would take several days. My last detox from it was a 2.5 day detox to clean my system out for an anti addiction therapy and even on that third day I was bouncing around and feeling strangely normal. My longest time without methadone was 3 weeks, and the withdrawal set in so slowly and horribly that it wasn't until week 2 that I was begging to be unconscious and needed help walking, yet couldn't sit still.

    It's been a while since that time but I'm guessing it should be tonight or tomorrow that you start to really notice the energy being sucked from you, then again the substances this dr. has given you may be enough to cover up a substantial amount of this. At least until the day before your induction, then you're bound to feel it, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

    I wish you well on your goals, take it easy on yourself and be patient and be honest and open with those around you, asking them to be patient with you as the life returns to your brain.



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  3. #3
    jdude's Avatar
    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Allison...there's a good reason your doc wants you at 30mg OR LESS of methadone B4 induction.

    But taking the Oxys may have given you some in between time?

    Even at that, I would use the COWS scale. It's not a clock thing, but the longer you wait, the better chance you'll have a reasonable induction.

    If you're not taking IV, you may want to ask for the subutex instead of suboxone. Then start the induction LOW, like 2mg and wait at least 90 minutes B4 seeing IF you need to dose again.

    Jay

    <center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>

  4. #4
    Allison81's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies. It just seems weird because last time I detoxed off Methadone at 40mgs I was in terrible withdrawal by day four. Tomorrow is going to be day four and I just don't feel that bad. I also assume it is because he gave me Oxycodone to take, while the Methadone is getting out of my system.

    My doctor told me to break the 8 mg sub into quarters and when I first take it, for me to take only a quarter at a time. Just to make sure it doesn't throw me into precipitated withdrawal.

    My prescription is for Suboxone. Can you tell me what the difference is between Subutex and Suboxone. I've always wondered that, but never knew what the difference was.

    Thank you so much everyone!!

    Allison

  5. #5
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    Suboxone contains naloxone, which is there to prevent abuse .. This might help..

    Effects of buprenorphine versus buprenorphine/naloxone
    tablets in non-dependent opioid abusers
    by
    Strain EC, Stoller K, Walsh SL, Bigelow GE
    Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences,
    The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine,
    Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

    Psychopharmacology (Berl) 2000 Mar;148(4):374-83

    ABSTRACT

    RATIONALE: Buprenorphine is an opioid agonist-antagonist under development in the United States as a sublingual medication for treatment of opioid dependence. Buprenorphine may be abused; therefore, tablets combining buprenorphine with naloxone have been developed with the intent of reducing the abuse risk in people physically dependent upon opioids. The characteristics and abuse potential of buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone tablets in non-dependent opioid abusers have not been determined. Non-parenteral abuse of opioids such as buprenorphine may be more likely in people who have less severe substance abuse disorders (e.g., are not physically dependent upon opioids). OBJECTIVES: To assess the abuse potential of sublingual buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone tablets in non-dependent opioid abusers. METHODS: Subjects (n=7) were tested with sublingual buprenorphine (4, 8, 16 mg), sublingual buprenorphine/naloxone (1/0.25, 2/0.5, 4/1, 8/2, 16/4 mg), as well as intramuscular hydromorphone as an opioid agonist control (2, 4 mg) and placebo in laboratory sessions conducted twice per week. Dosing was double-blind and double-dummy. RESULTS: The higher doses of both buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone produced similar opioid agonist-like effects. The onset of these effects was slowed, consistent with the sublingual route of administration, and the magnitude of effects was moderate. There was no evidence to suggest the addition of naloxone attenuated buprenorphine's opioid agonist effects in this population when buprenorphine was delivered by the sublingual route. CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that sublingual buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone may both be abused by opioid users who are not physically dependent upon opioids.

    Kenny

  6. #6
    jdude's Avatar
    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    In short the suboxone has naloxone in it.To prevent IV abuse. Subutex doesn't. It's not supposed to be absorbed sublingually, but most believe more is absorbed then sited. Causing some side effects.

    If you have a choice ,eliminate the variable.Providing there is no issue of possible IV abuse.

    <center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>

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