Being off sub are you experiencing restless legs ans no sleep

It depends how u get off sub & from what dose (regarding sleep and RLS.).

If u reduce slowly espeacially at the lower doses and skip days and excercise then sleep is not so miserable even though u will have to twist and turn a little and sleep less. Excercising, stretching legs, not thinking about it etc all helps. It will come back fully if u dont take another opiate i.e tramadol, kratom leaf or tea, benzos etc. Whenever some ppl use other opiates and benzos to get off opiods such as sub they tend to suffer sleep and rls for longer. Because these other opiates also give rls and sleep disturbances even if u take them here or there or once or twice a week. Considering the half life of them too. So its best not to take anything other then vits, supps, clonidine, valerian root, 5htp. And also excercise. Even a little. Walk around the house or block.

Anything can be used for initial withdrawals from a substance but its the mind which needs changing, the thinking, the life-style, attutide etc in which turn reflect PAWS. One can take any substance to help withdrawals but they wont help in the long-run and thats one of the reasons some suffer longer paws then others because of wanting to use, cravings, anxiety of whether to use or not, guilt-trips of using for a day etc all reflect paws. Like i said excercise, any form of work out will help. Hang in there Man!.

Good-luck and God-Bless.

Peace!.

Clean from Subutex for nearly 2 years..

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Where there is a Will there is a Way

Ive been off the subs for alomost a month. The 6th will be a month. And i feel great, the only prob is the only being able to sleep for about 6 hours at a time. The RLS was gone after about 3 weeks. ALOT is in your head. If you keep busy and excersise, it def helps with the sleep. MAKE YOURSELF and i promise you will fill better afterwards. They say walking helps but it didnt for me. What helped me was some good cardio, ie running, dancing anything that got my blood flowing and sweat poring out. I would run in place for 20 min til i couldnt do it anymore and i was dripping sweat my butt off and it made me fill so much better, even made me feel better about myself. Just find what u can do do get your blood boiling. I even played the Wii to get some sort of excercise. Just hang in there and def pray to your Higher Power. By the way Happy Easter everyone. U can do it if u believe u can

Hello all, I was an oxycontin addict for about a year before I started suboxone. At the worst I would pop 3 80's in the morning to get me started and continue to take 1 every 2-4 hours for a 7 hour period. I would take them to get f#$%ed up, not just to feel good. I started suboxone august of 09 and started at 3 8mg doses a day(24mg, dr. recommended). Thursday right before memorial day weekend I took my last dose(2mg) at 4:00am. It has been hell since. I have a very supportive wife whom I love dearly and even more because of the support she's given me. The only reason why it is so hard for me is because of work, people are started to notice my fatigue and it's beggining to look like i'm "milking the clock". I don't know what to do anymore. I have the twitching and aching legs, minimal sleep, restlessness, and i'm just too tired to even communicate with people at times. I cannot wait till this is over. Opiates have taken the past 2 years of my life away from me. Today is day 7 and it's still bad. I just want to function and be happy again. Does anyone know how to make this withdrawl better(vitamins,etc..)? Thanks in advance

Welcome joey.....you may want to start your own thread (topic) for faster and more replies.

But...how did you get down to the 2mg...and is there a reason you need/want to jump at that dose? Have you read some of the stickies...maybe on the clondine?

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You know, I just didn't have that much trouble stopping Sub. My sobriety date is 2-28-06 and I took 16mg Sub for about 7 months then dropped to 8mg for a month then dropped to 4mg for a month then 2mg for a month. So I was on it for a full year.

The worst part for me was the anxiety of stopping. I was scared of withdrawal and scared I would relapse. For 48 hours, I had restlessness and muscle aches - but nothing like the withdrawals during my addiction. Not even close. Withdrawal during my addiction was accompanied Uncomfortable? Yes. Intolerable? No. Keeping my brain active was key

Surprisingly, (and yes, I was deep into AA at the time) I did not experience cravings. I am still opioid free.

Congrats hb99 in getting off the sub..Any positive story such as yours goes a long way in giving People hope. Well done!

Peace!

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Where there is a Will there is a Way

HB, agree with Ali, great work, something to keep in mind. Slow taper off the sub, mind was worst of it? Physical not so bad? Am I right on that one. I am trying to help someone else (not on here) who may be in your same boat, so looking for ideas. Congratulations my friend!
Always,
annie
Wow look how far you have come

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Anne

My experience is not typical, but were all different. I am on day 7 of w/d from suboxone. I took it to treat PAWS which an Addiction specialist with 20 yrs in the field informed me could/would last over2 yrs. I treated my Chronic Pain with narcotics for over 8 yrs, the last year I was abusing Oxycontin ER taking up to 1200 mgs a day, reg dose 320 mgs. I would take as many as I needed to get relief from the emotional and physical pain I thought I was in, wd every month for 2 weeks when I was out( this was all prescribed meds) suffer, intensive withdrawal until I got new thru to the new month. Towards the end I began to realize I was wasting half my life;( but for some bizarre reason felt that I should suffer for taking truckloads of narcotics! So I decided enough was enough, retired from a excellent paying job, and tried to withdraw on my own. Ended up hospitalized for over 6 days cause my heart wouldn't beat correctly and of course was given narcotics and was told "don't ever do that again" I was able to get into a medically supervised detox, for 2 weeks was feeling good until I was 45 mins from checking out and the bupe wore off! It was then I learned of PAWS, I was adamant about not taking suboxone when I first left, until I saw the addiction specialist whom counseled me. He also prescribed Seroquel an antiphyschotic sp for sleep while I pondered the suboxone treatment. With the understanding that it heals the part of the brain that is damaged by longterm use of narcotics, that I would be able to function, taking care of my then 4 yr old, I chose that path. I was down to between 4-2-1 for the last two months no problem. I took my last 1 mg last Sunday drove 300 miles to get my child, flew home and then some expected mild wd. I am declaring my Independence from all opiates/ agonists and expect to be successful. I also take a low dose of cymbalta to treat my CP and. Have had that in place for a while. This is/was a plan. If you are using suboxone for PAWS with the intent and idea that A. No one gets out alive or without some suffering you will be successful. I wish everyone the best of luck and keep the faith

I have been told by several people to keep my stay on bupe short and sweet. But having read some of this thread, I really need to rethink this. After 15 continuous years on opiates (methadone and fentanyl, primarily), a three-week taper might not really be my best plan...

I really have no clue as to which plan would really serve me best. But this would be a bad time to spend several months with my ability to think severely compromised. Maybe slower is better for me?

In a way, this kind of sounds like an excuse to keep using, even to me. But on the other hand, I do think that as long as I am making progress, however slow, it's OK. This is confusing as hell.

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-Rain

"Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles."

Suboxone is not a crutch, it's a way, and if you need to maintain normal life, to heal the part of the brain affected by longterm use/abuse of narcotics. I still don't have cravings, not even today, day 8, in my lifetime plan to be free. See an addiction specialist, not someone who is licensed to prescribe, but someone whom has real knowledge. Ask questions of your AD and if they want more then $500.00 for induction into they're program forget it. Just like all meds you have to take it as prescribed.

Hoka Hey it's a good day to die! Crazy Horse

I had an AD. She completely screwed me, and I don't trust her any more. I don't live in or near a city of any size, so ADs are few and far between, and I do not know how to go about finding one. Ideas?

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-Rain

"Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles."

how is it possible to heal the 'part of the brain affected by longterm abuse of narcotics' by taking another narcotic?

Rain - you're doing the research to find your own journey. You know the dangers of sub....your decision must feel right to you.

(by the way...my sub doc charged me $600 for induction and full treatment. He's an amazing doc...I would have paid more to see him if I had to).

peace
janice

Hey there-
*Whew* I just read the last 72 pages of posts (super fast read, easy when you're withdrawing from Oxycontin) and I've just been put on Suboxone today.
I think that I am on probably 6mg right now, and will try to taper within the month or so.
I'd like to add that I do have a success story with tapering off of Roxi 30s for those who are interested. It just took about four months after I decided to kick it and with my ex boyfriend's help. (Mind you, I took about 30-40mg once a day, only after sundown, however to clarify, it was EVERYDAY for a 8 months to a year)
I felt no physical withdrawal symptoms. The hard part for me was the mental: even when I was down to a baby line (intranasal) I still wanted to continue. However, that's a mental thing. As soon as I realized that I was probably taking about 5mg a day or less of that stuff and that "baby" lines are ridiculous and akin to snorting air, I stopped. Completely fine in the days that followed.
I did not even need it the second time around when I stupidly went ahead and did it again. But I digress. If anyone is interested, pm me! I'd be glad to tell you my story and how tapering down on Roxi worked for me.
Anyway, *moving on* I did a whole bunch of research on Suboxone (some academic, some...notsomuch) and decided to try it out.
Keep in mind this happened after reading both fairly negative threads (yes, ALL of the posts) on this website.
My habit was 2 80s a day, constantly redosed throughout the day for about 9 months to a year. So I am admittedly a baby compared to many of you that had to deal with a horrific long-term addiction (heart goes out to you all).
What may be a little different: I'm tiny. I have a fast metabolism. Most of your teenage kids (if that were applicable, I read there were some parents, some with babies, some with teens) are probably taller than me. I am also fairly young.
I can't believe I did that much a day.

Anyway, I called around, found a doctor that took me in immediately (now THAT was hard) and promptly started. I'm posting mainly because I want to know and experiment with the idea of little to no withdrawals with this drug. Yes, I know, very "Gregory House MD-like" of me. I want other people who stumble across this to have hope if my story does turn out fantastic, and I want to nip it in the bud as fast as I can.

I expressed my concern to my *absurdly* handsome doctor, who told me he will try to get me off within a few months. Being very inquisitive, I wanted to experiment with it a little faster. Unlike some posters who stop posting after any real knowledge is gained on whether or not no withdrawals are possible with short term usage, I want to continue with this information. Hopefully I don't get sidetracked.

So: 1) I hate the long half life of this drug already. 2) I already have a good feel that being on this too long will **** with me. 3) Get off as soon as possible.

Here we go:
Day 1: Suboxone 5-6 mg in lieu of a 2 pill a day habit with constant redose
Took about 2 hours to feel better from withdrawal. Think this is because I did not take the whole half pill as advised and slowly started to add more when I didn't feel too much. Given another half pill, same thing. 5-6 mg is quite bearable. Feel jittery, like I just took Adderall or something. Very slight headache, slight fever still after 2 hours. Otherwise, ok. Not great, but not bad.

I talked with the doctor about the longer withdrawals associated with suboxone as opposed to Oxycontin, and he said something that very much made sense.
I took 5-6 mg to feel better, not great. I was on a 140-160 mg habit.
(I'll play with the numbers a bit)
8 mg of Suboxone is equal to 160-180 mg of Oxycontin a day
So by that reasoning,
4 mg sub=80 mg oxy
2 mg sub=40 mg oxy
1 mg sub=20 mg oxy
For people that "jump off" at 1 mg, that's still quite a lot of Oxycontin to withdraw from, don't you think?
.5 mg sub=10 mg oxy
.25 mg sub=5 mg oxy
.125 mg sub=2.5 mg oxy
.0625 mg sub=1.25 mg oxy

This is my reasoning. I was able to kick my Roxi habit to probably under 5mg comfortably with no problems whatsoever. Keep in mind it probably will have to go that low to .0625 mg suboxone or feasibly LESS for this to work properly.

...How the HELL is this done then? I've bought a dropper/syringe to dissolve it in water to put under my tongue, and am prepared to use it.

What if after you get down to a small amount of the suboxone and just switch back to a very low dose of Oxycontin and then eventually nothing?
Has anyone tried that? The numbers seem to make sense, but the credibility of that plan is still shaky.

Anyway, will update soon. This is just a theory, not a suggestion. Personally I am wrestling with this idea as well in my plan for no withdrawal.

-Penguin

I am on day 11 off suboxone and feel like i've been welcome to hell! When does the withdrawl ever stop? I've experienced withdawl from oxy's which was pretty bad but even with the oxy's I knew that I would feel better after a week. I have been all over the internet looking for success stories of people getting off suboxone and let me tell you - they are hard to come by. It was a releif to hear Bup4pain was able to do it successfully - I wish you all the best. From the information I have gathered, taking suboxone short term(a few weeks) to help with withdral symptoms MAY be helpful, but as far as I can see, any long term suboxone use has led people to nothing but a nightmare! I feel that the doctors are extreeemly uninformed about this drug. Suboxone is a ticking timebomb and it's just a matter of time before it explodes in the medical industries face! Yes, I guess i am a little angry. Heres my story - I had a bad cart accident years ago where a truck rolled over my back. Needless to say, I deal with pain everyday. I was on all kinds of opiates for years and decided I was tired of living in a fog - tired of being controlled by meds. I was put on suboxone and have been on it for almost 3 years. My doctor told me the withdrawl symptoms when I came off would be mild. WRONG!I had started at 16mg but almost immediately went down to 8 mg(even I knew the 16 was too much). I tapered down to 2 mg a day for a few months before i went off. 2 days later the s*** hit the fan! If anyone is interested in the day to day blow I'll be happy to tell you but I dont know if it's what you are going to want to hear - but it will be the truth. I'm sober 11 days and havnt had more than 6 hours of sleep total - I'm delerious. I feel like if I could just sleep i'd be so much better! Do I feel like taking a little peice of sub right now? NO WAY! I will NEVER touch that stuff again. We must be strong - going back to that stuff is just going to make everything worse. God Bless you all who are going through this pain. I will remember you in my prayers.