I took it for 15-16 days, had 2 days of ACUTE W/D, then it's been smooth sailing from there.
Only a few chills, dilated pupils, and I'm very reflective, but that's always been my nature.
It's only been 7 days off Bupe for me, so I should be feeling some PAWS, but I'm not. Good luck to ya, it sounds like you went somewhere who was on top of their stuff.
BTW, AWESOME name. I'm a Strat man myself.
Stratocaster, you are exactly right about having the correct info. from the doctors. This is one of the huge problems. The good thing for you is that you know what to expect here. My doctor had told me that I would have NO negative symptoms after the sub. When I reported that I was, he made me feel like...well, it must be you, I've never seen this before, etc......so, quite naturally I began to think something had now become horribly wrong with me from all my years of drug use.
Most have already stipulated here that a really fast, low-dose sub run can literally leap-frog you right over the acute withdrawal. It can be an excellent detox tool as long as you know to expect some prolonged minor symptoms after you're finished.
Most of the negative stuff you are seeing here has to do with either people having outcomes that they were not told to expect initially....or, due to all the problems people are having during or after trying to detox after having been on sub for longer than around 7-10 days....anything in the neighborhood of sub maintenance. And then, of course, there are some people experiencing some problems ON sub maintenance, but most of the negative stuff here is due to people on long-term sub.
As long as you stick to the protocol, you should not have any major acute withdrawal when you stop. It takes about 5-7 days to detox off oxy. It takes about 2 weeks to detox off fentanyl, the first week being acute withdrawal and the second week being horrible leg aches. So...there is the possibility that you may have some leg aches for a few days....when you stop the sub...due to the fentanyl. And you will probably get some annoying and lingering symptoms....but it's good that you know to expect this now.
Dee--off MMT 9-12-06
woke up this morning ffelt pretty good. yesterday my mind just kind of hurt but bearable nothing like cold turkey. the crave to use was not there. the nice thing is it has been 6 days since taking my doc. its nice to have the time be hind me wich gives me a lot more hope. i used to swear that i woud quit than about the three day mark i would give in. once last year i made it for 2 weeks sith just benzos and cold turkey. i thinks after going through that it made the mental part of quitting very tough. every time i faced that first week i was so scared because of what i felt like before. my wife and i are ddoing this together. i could not think to clearly yesterday but feel better today. cold turkey i couldnt even operate. its nice to have almost a week under my belt with out the drug of my choice. the craving were so bad ct. i still thought about my doc but in a different way. not wanting to use but after taking it for a year and a half. i talk about how its nice not to be thinking what happens if i run out or the constant thought of how to get more for when i run out. or the all together always thinking what i am going to score and how long its going to last me if i only take this much a day but then i would always want that high and take more to acheive it and ran out sooner than i planned. i always had my little exuses in my head i will take less in a couple of days so more wont hurt now, so i can be more social, or its friday or saturday. i got to the point at the end that i would take abunch and feel the high for maybe a half an hour then four hours later i felt like i was going into withdrawls so i sould have to dose 3 times a day just to keep th withdrawls off. its nice to have adiferent persspective. sometimes its hard to think. but i know i have alot more of that in the future with the paws that i will go through. but hopefully i wont have to go through the sever hot and cold being up for aweek detox. the severe crawling skin. the second or third day of thinkin all i reaaly want is a pill t aleviate this contant thinking of my drug. today i woke up went to work didnt feel the need for a pill. i am going to see how long i can last without taking any sub. oh yeah oh yeah yesterday when i took the sub i felt nore clear headed before. i just got the weaty hands and a little hot spell not bad totaly bearable. i took it preety late between 3 and 4. ifelt good initialy after taking it for a couple of hours but the good left around 9 and then my head could not think very clearly in any attempts of communication i just sat and was quiet. oh my hands were a little trembly but not hat bad. its gone this morning and i still have not taken any sub
Just to clear up any confusion, I did NOT taper from Sub, which most definitely led to my ACUTE W/D's, but I do believe it reduced/negated my PAWS. So far, at least.
I LOVE THIS >>>>>>"a really fast, low-dose sub run can literally leap-frog you right over the acute withdrawal".
Hey Ryan - So to clarify...are you saying that you took sub for about 2 weeks but stopped it at a relatively high dose with no taper? Because you wrote, "I took it for 15-16 days, had 2 days of ACUTE W/D, then it's been smooth sailing from there."? "It" being sub, right? Just curious, why did you not taper? And, again just curious, what were you getting off of? And Dude...if you don't want to talk about anything don't let me impose.
By the way - to Ryan, CRJ and Sudukodee - thanks for the response posts...I really appreciate it...and to crj...go go go...you're the leader right now and I'm right behind you.
Today I saw the Doctor for the first time...I've been there 4 times but always saw the nurse practitioner. I had a LONG talk with the Doctor. You won't believe this...I am feeling fine and he still tried to UP my dose of bupe today! He wanted me to ingest an 8 mg tablet in his office and give me 4 mg's to take home for a total of 12 mg today. Then he said he would like to see me do a 3 month taper at the minimum because my use was so high. Then, and you're not going to believe this one, he said that I should write out my own schedule, 'one that I am comfortable with'! He said I could go up to 32 mg's per day and taper down to 16 mg's per day and stay there as long as I like. He said most of his patients take 2 X 8 mg tables per day.
So, here's what happened today because you people have the guts and brains to share. I took 6 mg's instead of 12 mg's. I told him that I would not go beyond 10 days total bupe use, period. I told him that I wanted some 'take home' bupe for the last couple of days, to which he said no problem and gave me 4 tablets to use 'at my discretion'.
If not for you all I would have easily told him to put me on a long term taper of bupe and give me a months supply at 16-32 mg's per day...that's EXACTLY what he wanted me to do, although I don't know why. The nurse was 1000 times more conservative than this Doctor was.
The final result (thanks to you all) is that he added 3 days to my taper at any dose I want...and I'm thinking 0.5 mg should be my last dose on day 10.
Lastly, and I can't believe this one either, he said that he's only a phone call away so when I decide to stop if I am uncomfortable just give him a call and he will "medicate me" prn! Probably not a great thing to put on the table in front of a whiny drug fiend like myself. If anyone needs an overly sympathetic meth/bupe etc. Doc I got the guy. BTW, he's a great guy I am sure but why so liberal with meds in the addiction business?!?
PS: I ask anyone to suggest what you think is the best taper schedule for me. I've taken 6 - 8 - 8 - 6 thus far. I feel fine, strangely shaky for some reason and a couple of short bouts of hot flash sweats and achy legs (my worst symptom) but that's about it...I may even feel too good. Earlier I wrote that I think the place I am going for meds is very rigid, HA! Today they were like...'what ever you want Dude...we're you're new and improved dope man'.
Yes, "it" was Bupe.
Just about 30 minutes ago I came inside from a cig break and felt like I was wrapped in ice. It's so weird, as it's the ONLY symptom I've had, and it didn't come about until mid-day.
I didn't taper because A) I was running out and B) I didn't want to be on it for much more than two weeks, taper or not.
And I was coming off a 160-200 mg/day Hydro/Oxy habit.
i took 1.5 grams today at 11 i took it earlier because of my schedule. i felt fine befor that not any thing noticable. i did not feel bad occasionaly i get a small headache but ib profen takes care of that. this stuff is expensive i wish my doctor would of given me less to buy. my wife and i both got aprescription for 30 8 milligrams pills we only filled mine. i counted them yesterday i have a ton left
i am glad i did not pay another two hundred to fill my wifes prescription. this is my thinking i maybe wrong but it sure seems that whatever dose of sub people are induced on seems to be the bar of where they start at. i am glad in the beggining i stopped at 4 grams. also under two grams i feel better than before. iam also crushing the suboxone and dividing it into piles to try and get the most acurate measrument fo my last couple of doses.
stratocaster i would definitly try and hit that 2 miilligram mark sooner than later. i didnt notice much difference until cutting below 2. i am glad i have more days at lower doses at the end than having to do huge jumps. tommorrow i will be at 1 gram and the next day at.5. i like more of the slow ween towards the end i feel its keeping me more level. i have spent alot more days around 2 and lower wich has helped me. i have read nightmares of people trying to jump wuickly from 2. for me its beter to have many days at small doses. i did feel it abit.but not anything i could not handle. i think you will be surprised at what the lower doses do. as for doctors i know ther great gus but i dont trust the at all. i know there motivated by money if he can get you hooked he can already count his money in the bank just off the visit. i know if i had amachine that would make my bankaccount grow i would be tempted to do it reguardles of the oath that i took. think about it if you can have a patients on suboxone as a doctor and they each do 1 appointment amonth at maybe 200 to 300 apop for a ten 15 minute visit that equall to about 20 to 30 thousand amonth that is a pretty good risidual income. i would not want to lose that. i would be pushing to up your dose too. Money in the bank.if they heal you
they lose apatient= lose money. a couple of years of treating people with suboxone i wouldnt have to work any more. oh the joy of being a legal drug dealer. i wouldnt let let some force me to take mor with out questionin his motives. my drug dealer that sold me lortabs was a prety nice guy too. i may be biast against the medical community after having my sone inthe hospital for 4 months and wathing almost die 3 times. my wife had 35 pound cist 4 years ago and had apremature baby at 26 weeks that is when i started taking lortab because it made me feel not so sad watching him hookeed up to a breathing mavhine for three months. a lot of it is because the doctor missed the cist on the ultrasound the first time he did it. he did not even notice it untill something was wrong until the day we went in. he was to busy to do agood job for us. after watching my family in the hospital for three months i have a completly diferent view of the medical community. its all about the money i would never trust any one to tell me i need more of an opiate than i think i need for myself. wy should i have taken 16-32 when at first four grams rocked my world.
I agree with you 100% about the legalized drug dealer status for sub "doctors". I bet real drug dealers treat you with more respect than pain management doctors/detox doctors treat their patients.
My Pain in the A** Management doctor now charges $1,600 for a 3 day subutex "induction" followed by $300 monthly "appointments". I think there is a minimum commitment of x-number of months and a penalty if you terminate the contract early. And of course, if the insurance company doesn't pay, you are responsible for the rest - non negotiable. This is just a money train.
If my treatment of ulcerative colitis (UC) that I got in 2001 didn't jade my view of the medical bastards, then the pain management/detox with opioids and buprenorphine completely drove that into the ground. Most doctors are illiterate money grubbing status-seeking god-complex bastards. There are exceptions, of course. And no, they don't care about you or your suffering. They spent 8 years in school and N years in residency eating sh*t, so they feel justified. I pay $850+ per month in health insurance premiums due to my UC - I don't think I am getting my money's worth. It's a giant racket - from the MD's to the pharmacies to the hospitals. If you are a 'cash' paying customer (which I am not, since I have health insurance) - you are screwed even more by the medical system - especially medications. If you go to a pharmacy to buy a medication and the price under the insurance plan is say $500 with you paing $100 and the insurance co paying $400 - since they negotiate bulk purchase agreements between pharma co's and insurance co's - if you were to pay cash for the same drug because you didn't have health insurance, it might be $700 or $800 for the same thing. Yes, that is correct. The same thing applies to doctor's visits, hospital stays, etc. It's F'd up. No, I don't think having a national government controlled health-care system is the answer either.
Thank you, my MD's, for ruining by body and mind with prednisone (yeah, I know it's an approved treatment for UC) and later with bupe. Hell, I share some of the blame because I had a flareup of sciatica in 2005 after stopping prednisone and I asked for something to deal with the pain. Out came the hydros, later the oxy's. Fu*****k. I had no idea I was in for the ride of my life. That was my gastroenterologist, not my pain mngmt guy. My gastro, after he got me hooked on 100 mg of 10/325 percocets per day for 6 months, cut me off and said at most I will have is some sweating. HAHAHAHAHAHA. He is a nice guy, just not thorough and very ignorant of how addictive these drugs are and how to taper and ween people off of them. If I knew then, what I know now.... well. No use crying over spilled milk. I might as well go watch 'Back to the future'.
Sorry, crj, for venting.
i appreciate your reply any reply helps i nice to see a rewponse. that is expensive. ihave insurnce witch costs me about 800 a monyh for my family. but when i caled the bup doctotr here i in salt lake i called around most of them were 1500 plus yous have to spend aweek learning aboutit then while you are on it you would spend another week everyday in classes. after the tird phone call i found a doctor that charges 200 for your first appointment if you don have insurance and that it icludes one folow up visit. i did not run the prescription through my insurance because of fear i dont exactly know why. the 30 subs cost 200 dolors.
anyways on day 6 i took 1.5 grams. i want to do this the most scientific way as possible. someone told me to skip a day anf then try half grams every other day. is this a drug that you ramp upn than slowly gi off of.
any advice on the best way to do the last part of my taper to do it correctly that it wiil have the most benefit? my dose in days 1=4.2=4,3=3,4=2=5=1.75,6=1.5
is it scientificaly best to jump of now or continue with the taper at .5 a day or evry other day?
welltoday i took 1 gram at about 200. tommorrow is my doctor followup visit. kindve nervous he had me taking at least 16 milligrams and up to 32 depending how i felt. so far in one week i have taken 17.25 grams that is just over one pill for my wife and i. my goal is to go in and get some chlonidine. this stuff kind of makes my wifes asthma flair up it might just be the polution. definitly can feel some repritory diferences. tommorrow i will talk to my doctor tommorow and just tell him the truth that this is what we took. and i would like to quit as soon as possible. tommorrow i will take .5 grams
Hey All ~
This is Bupe Watch 2008, Stratocastor reporting in. Thus far here's my numbers:
8 - 8 - 6 - 4 - ?
I will try for a 3 mg day today. I don't know if I can do this but I was thinking of this schedule - anyone want to let me know what they think is appreciated.
8 - 8 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1.....then the dust piles of 0.5- 0.25 mg for a day or 2 and then that it, done. If horrible withdrawals appear after the Bupe totally wears off it has got to be less intense than I would have endured if I stopped cold at around 300-400 mg/day of Oxy...that is IF Bupe works the way its reported to.
I am very dubious of this bupe stuff because I know from experience that if I subsistue say 5000 mcg of Fentanly with say 800 mg of Oxy I do not feel any withdrawls either...BUT if I stop the Oxy I go throught the exact same hell as if I just went cold turkey off the Fentanl without having gone to Oxy's.
So, what the hell is so different about Bupe? This is too good to be true. I have felt NOTHING and its been 6 days without any Oxy's...since I just replaced one narcotic with another I just don't see how I won't go though the same withdrawls...what is the mechanism? If there is no difference between Oxy's and Hydro's then why is Bupe different as to "leap frog" over the acute phase of Oxy withdrawal?
Or, should I not look a gift in the mouth and just thank God there's something that curcumvents acute narcotic withdrawals?
I was thinking of taking the 8 hour on-line course, then I could be of some value to others.
Anyway...those with experience any advice on my taper schedule is greatly appreciated, as is any intel on why Bupe can (I hope) by-pass acute withdrawals.
Thanks to All,
Welcome stratocaster.........how long were you on sub? Your taper seems quick but dosble. Have you read up on the clonidine?
<center>You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.</center>