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  1. #1
    yipper69 is offline Junior Member
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    Default starting sub tomorrow and need advice

    Here's my story.
    I been on about 160mg oxy for about a year and half and just chewed my last 2-40 mg. I got a hold of 120, 8mg suboxone.
    I plan on taking 4mg of suboxone in about 12hrs. I don't want to be on sub for more than 2 weeks.
    Some of my questions are: will I have withdrawl from the oxys after my 2 week of sub rapid detox? Will I have bad withdrawl form sub if I take 4mg for about a week, then taper to 2 mg for 5 days then 1 mg for 2 days?
    I been reading this forum for weeks and this is my 1st post. Any advice would be welcome as i'm doing this on my own and don't have a doctor to walk me thru it.
    I'm really ready to live a drug free life that I used to remember before the oxys.

    Thanks,
    Yip

  2. #2
    OnMyWay's Avatar
    OnMyWay is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Hey Yip. :) Someone will be along with answers to your questions but I wanted to stop by and say that you're making a great decision. It sounds like you are ready to do what it takes and that's mainly what you need to get through it. I don't know the details regarding mgs and the resulting wds, but I do know that with sub, you want to take as little as you can to get by. You also want to stay on it short term, but it seems like you already knew it. Anyway, best of luck. [;^)]

    Welcome to ODR.

  3. #3
    BOAG's Avatar
    BOAG is offline Senior Member
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    Hi Yipper, welcome to the ODR. :)

    You need to be in moderate withdrawals before starting sub, if you take it too soon you will be sick.

    I've copied the COWS scale from a post of jdudes... it will help you to more objectively figure out where you are with your withdrawals.


    Resting Pulse Rate: (record beats per minute)
    Measured after sitting or lying for one minute

    0 pulse rate 80 or below

    1 pulse rate 81-100

    2 pulse rate 101-120

    4 pulse rate greater than 120

    Sweating: over past ? hour not accounted for by room temperature or patient activity.
    0 no report of chills or flushing

    1 subjective report of chills or flushing

    2 flushed or observable moistness on face

    3 beads of sweat on brow or face

    4 sweat streaming off face

    Restlessness Observation during assessment
    0 able to sit still

    1 reports difficulty sitting still, but is able to do so

    3 frequent shifting or extraneous movements of legs/arms

    5 Unable to sit still for more than a few seconds

    Pupil size
    0 pupils pinned or normal size for room light

    1 pupils possibly larger than normal for room light

    2 pupils moderately dilated

    5 pupils so dilated that only the rim of the iris is visible

    Bone or Joint aches If having pain previously, only the additional component attributed to opiates withdrawal is scored
    0 not present

    1 mild diffuse discomfort

    2 severe diffuse aching of joints/ muscles

    4 rubbing joints or muscles and is unable to sit still because of discomfort

    Runny nose or tearing Not accounted for by cold symptoms or allergies
    0 not present

    1 nasal stuffiness or unusually moist eyes

    2 nose running or tearing

    4 nose constantly running or tears streaming down cheeks


    GI Upset: over last ? hour
    0 no GI symptoms

    1 stomach cramps

    2 nausea or loose stool

    3 vomiting or diarrhea

    5 Multiple episodes of diarrhea or vomiting

    Tremor observation of outstretched hands
    0 No tremor

    1 tremor can be felt, but not observed

    2 slight tremor observable

    4 gross tremor or muscle twitching

    Yawning Observation during assessment
    0 no yawning

    1 yawning once or twice during assessment

    2 yawning three or more times during assessment

    4 yawning several times/minute

    Anxiety or Irritability
    0 none

    1 reports increasing irritability or anxiousness

    2 obviously irritable anxious

    4 so irritable or anxious that participation in the assessment is difficult

    Gooseflesh skin
    0 skin is smooth

    3 piloerrection of skin can be felt or hairs standing up on arms

    5 prominent piloerrection



    Total scores

    Score:

    5-12 = mild;

    13-24 = moderate;

    25-36 = moderately severe;

    more than 36 = severe withdrawal


    I'm guessing it will take 12-24 hours for you to be in moderate WD's but you really need to go by the COWS scale rather than the clock.

    I'd start at 2 mg every 12 hours. If you take the 2 mgs and do not feel any better after 90 mins, you can always take an additional 1-2 mg. You don't want to be looking for a high, you're looking to get rid of the WD symptoms. After 2 weeks on sub, the oxys will be out of your system and you should not have WD's from them, but you will likely feel some WD's from the sub once you stop. But the less sub you are on and the sooner you're able to get off of it, the less WD's you will have. Short term sub WD's are not nearly as bad as oxy WD's, but they're still there... just don't want you to be surprised (like I was!)

    Congratulations on your decision to do this!!! :)


    Edit: To the powers that be...can the COWS scale be made into a sticky? It seems that this comes up fairly often.

    <center>Sometimes the party takes you places that you didnít really plan on going.</center>

  4. #4
    yipper69 is offline Junior Member
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    Thnks for all the advice. I will keep everyone informed on what i'm doing, dosage, how I feel...etc(if any one is intrested).

  5. #5
    pameather is offline Senior Member
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    K I will be checking in too,best of luck hun. You can do it.

  6. #6
    yipper69 is offline Junior Member
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    It's been 15 hours since my last dose of oc and I dont feel any withdrawl symptoms yet except a little irratiable.
    I'm going to wait it out to take my 1st dose of sub.

  7. #7
    christylmlw is offline Junior Member
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    congrats on your decision :) using sub for 7 days or less is the way it was intended to be used, regardless of how much oxy you were taking. just do it - there is no easy way out. plus the uncomfortable feelings you do get will help remind you not to pick it up again.

    Clean and Serene since 9/8/2003

  8. #8
    lookingup is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    quote:Originally posted by yipper69

    It's been 15 hours since my last dose of oc and I dont feel any withdrawl symptoms yet except a little irratiable.
    I'm going to wait it out to take my 1st dose of sub.
    We are interested, I was where you are not too long ago. Unfortunately I did not know about PAWS and have been on sub for four months. Many people have been through a lot and will give you all the help you ask for.

    Be sure you are in good wds. If any of that oxy got through unchewed it could still be in your system. Taking sub too soon can throw you into precipitated withdrawals which suck more than anything on earth. Tough it out as long as you can, relief will only be an hour away when you need it. Good luck.

  9. #9
    yipper69 is offline Junior Member
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    Ok, I took 2mg at around 5pm and still felt a little crappy so took another 2mg half an hour later. Feeling better now and feel it wearing off.
    I think I can make it til tomorrow to take my next dose.

    Thanks for all the help and support.

  10. #10
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    jdude is offline Senior Member
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    Hey yipper....if you havn't already, you may want to start a log or journal of doses,times, ect.

    You may also want to wait more like 60-90 minutes to evaluate if you need to dose again.

    Stay well.

    You can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking that caused them in the first place.

  11. #11
    yipper69 is offline Junior Member
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    Today is day 2. Only took 2mg and will not take more. I've been very tire and slept alot, feel kind of depressed. It feels like i have the mental w/d symptoms.
    I been doing a lot of reading on here and my new plan is to do a week or less with 2mg a day or less and deal with what ever w/ds are left. All the stories of PAWS are scaring the hell out of me.
    That's my plan right now, but who knows how i'll be thinking tomorrow or the rest of the week.

  12. #12
    jdude's Avatar
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    Hey yipper......if you do one more day at 2mg and then drop .5mg each reduction every day or 2, you should be able to stay within your 1-2 week plan.

    You may want to ask Knicker what plan her doc had her on....she had a spot on doc...very rare.

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